Topic: what are the benchmarks in creating bir taste?

[emin-j]

Let me expand on your points, if I may?:

No 'special' additives unless it was in the Spice Mix

Have you SEEN them make their spice mix?

No, as I said earlier their Spice Mix looked like your usual Garam Masala,same colour and coarse texture, when I asked about the Spice Mix the answer was ' that is Chef's own Masala.

They do not use Spiced Oil in the main dishes

Fair enough comment but, do they use it in their base, as Haldi has questioned?  And have you SEEN them make their base?

I did ask if they used re-claimed Oil in the Base and they said No.

They do not use higher heat than I have at home using our normal Gas Hob

I find this VERY hard to believe!  The output (in energy terms) must be FAR higher than that of a "normal" (presumably "domestic") gas hob!  Even though the flames don't look "ferocious"

This is only a small T/A in a Villiage and not a busy Town or City type T/A It was a Industrial type Gas Hob on what seemed quite a low flame but my Curry was made slowboat style with no manic scraping of the pan and certainly no flames !

They do not have excess Oil in the finished dish

Of course, by definition, "excess" is too much (but "too much" is better than "too little", in my book).  But how much oil would you say that use, per dish?

Sorry cant remember how much but I would reckon I could re-claim no more than two tsp of Oil from the top of my Curry.

They do not reduce the first ladle of Base

I am gobsmacked by the seeming contradiction (to many others' observations) here.  I agree with what Haldi says; this, in my opinion (i.e the "bhoona" process) is one of THE MOST significant aspects of "technique" (but perhaps not for the mildest curries) to extract maximum flavours from the spices and to produce that "BIR taste and aroma".

The first ladle of base was allowed to simmer for probably a minute and definately not reduced down by any great amount.

As I said ELW, if someone says it's "white", another will say it's "black"!  So make up your own mind and experiment and practice! 

I will make the trip to this T/A again soon and will ask more questions,they are friendly Guys and always ask how my Curry's are coming on ! problem is it's a 25 mile round trip but well worth the effort.

[Stephen Lindsay]

crack on and get cooking!...The more you cook the better your results will be.

Sounds to me a bit like a football coach telling their players to just "get out there and play!  The more you play the better you will get!" without providing any guidance or direction.  I suspect they wouldn't hold their job too long! 

Surely a little (lot) more guidance is in order? 

If you are going to quote me Cory please don't do it out of context by concentrating just on the words you want to challenge - I also said "this site has everything you need", i.e. the guidance is there.

[Stephen Lindsay]

I would like to suggest that this post doesn't veer into a search for the holy grail - the fact that some members can beat 3 out of 5 BI Rs is actually testament to this site and their cooking. If we said we could beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants would that be considered an achievement.

I disagree. Your comment confirms why I sometimes see things differently to other people on this forum. By my reckoning, there's fewer than 2 out of 5 BIRs where I rate the food these days. I'm sure the ratio was higher in the 1980s and most of the 90s. So, that means at least 3 out of 5 BIRs serve food which is mediocre and relatively tasteless. How can it be an achievement to "beat 3 out of 5 BIRs" when the standard is so low?

Yes, it would certainly be impressive to beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants because the standard is probably much higher.

I disagree with you George. I too have eating curries since the 1970s and my palette is not mediocre and tasteless and nor are my curries.

[George]

I disagree with you George. I too have eating curries since the 1970s and my palette is not mediocre and tasteless and nor are my curries.

If you are going to quote me Stephen please don't do it out of context by twisting what I wrote. I said that 3 out of 5 BIRs (very approx, I mean) serve mediocre, tasteless curries these days. I did not say your palette and/or your curries are tasteless.

[Cory Ander]

If you are going to quote me Cory please don't do it out of context by concentrating just on the words you want to challenge - I also said "this site has everything you need", i.e. the guidance is there.

Sorry if I offended you SL, but that was the gist of what I heard you saying....no doubt you meant something completely different (and, elsewhere, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt!)

Nevertheless, I still maintain that, for you to say (in relation to ELW's questions) that "everything exists on this site" provides next to no guidance or direction at all.  I'd like to think that you (and all of us) can (should) provide much better "guidance" to ELW (and others) than that 

[Cory Ander]

OK, very interesting observation, Haldi.  But have you ever managed to acquire a portion of their base and cook with it at home ?  If so, have you /then/ been able to replicate the BIR flavour.

Yes it comes out perfectly
Aroma and flavour

For me, this is such an important point (that has been raised before) and has nevertheless gets glossed over!

Haldi (whose opinion I hold in high regard) maintains (if I understand him correctly) that:

• Using the base suppied by his BIR he can TOTALLY replicate the taste and aroma of their curries.  This suggests, to me, that his "technique" is spot on (as I would expect from his experience in BIR kitchens and with cooking BIR curries)
• However, by making the base himself (at home), he CAN'T replicate the same taste and aroma (all else remains unchanged)!  This suggests, to me, that it's ALL TO DO WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE BASE!

Haldi, please correct me if my understanding is incorrect?  Otherwise, please guys, listen to what Haldi is telling you and please explore it more fully!

From my point of view, whilst I accept, and trust, Haldi's observations, I disagree that we need voluminous quantities of cooking (to generate "used oil") to replicate the results of a typical BIR.  Haldi may be right, but I strongly suspect there are other ways for the home cook to reproduce the same results (hence my experimentation with synthesising "spiced oil").

[Peripatetic Phil]

I agree with every word of CA's last message !
** Phil.

[currymonster]

• However, by making the base himself (at home), he CAN'T replicate the same taste and aroma (all else remains unchanged)!  This suggests, to me, that it's ALL TO DO WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE BASE!

Expanding on that thought, could it be that best tasting TAs pour the remains of the previous pot of base into the new one before cooking it? Maybe you would get this underlying moorish sweetness from the onions from the first base being cooked again and for longer?

[Derek Dansak]

Thats odd when i purchased some real bir base , and cooked with it ,the taste  was nothing like there curries. We need more members to repeat this. Is it only me and haldi that have actually purchased a tub of real bir base to try at home?  surely others have tried

[solarsplace]

Hi DD

Just over a year ago I got some base sauce from my local TA (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4851.0)

May be time to repeat this again as, tis but a distant memory. I don't recall a eurika moment as in the base was the be all and end all - but it did make a delicious curry I seem to recall.

However, I am pretty sure my technique is much better a year on, and perhaps the results would be different. Will see if I can get some more base from them....

Cheers