Topic: what are the benchmarks in creating bir taste?

[PaulP]

Hi ELW,

The forum does go quiet from time to time then usually picks up again.
I've been trying to do BIR curries for 2.5 years now, usually 2 per week and in that time I've tried about 8 base recipes, 5 or 6 spice mixes and countless recipes.

I'm pretty happy with my results as are the other people I give my efforts to. I can cook nicer curries than a couple of BIRs around here and feel I'm still at the 90% mark.

One thing is missing for me that my fav TA beats me on: A sweet tangy morish flavour to the oil in the curry and I don't mean suggary sweet. It is more spicy sweet if that makes any sense.

I'm beginning to think it may come from the use of whole spices in the base but I don't know which spices and what quantities. That idea came from making the ABC balti base which uses whole spices in a spice ball but for me the spices and mixes were wrong. It did have potential though and the whole spices made their way into the oil in the finished curries.

I could be completely wrong however.  Any other ideas for the sweet tangy taste I'm looking for?

Cheers,

Paul

[Stephen Lindsay]

I would like to suggest that this post doesn't veer into a search for the holy grail - the fact that some members can beat 3 out of 5 BI Rs is actually testament to this site and their cooking. If we said we could beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants would that be considered an achievement.

For the last year I've been regularly knocking out 3 to 4 curries, 3 to 5 times per week. My curries have never tasted better and I reminded of Bruce Edward's last post - this site has everything you need - crack on and get cooking!

I really don't think it's about reclaimed oil, jaggery, or msg, I think it's about sticking with a decent base, spice mix, set of recipes and bashing on. There's a lot of these on this site and I really don't think one will draw you more to an "ellusive" taste than any other. The more you cook the better your results will be.

[curryhell]

I would like to suggest that this post doesn't veer into a search for the holy grail - the fact that some members can beat 3 out of 5 BI Rs is actually testament to this site and their cooking. If we said we could beat 3 out of 5 French restaurants would that be considered an achievement.

For the last year I've been regularly knocking out 3 to 4 curries, 3 to 5 times per week. My curries have never tasted better and I reminded of Bruce Edward's last post - this site has everything you need - crack on and get cooking!

I really don't think it's about reclaimed oil, jaggery, or msg, I think it's about sticking with a decent base, spice mix, set of recipes and bashing on. There's a lot of these on this site and I really don't think one will draw you more to an "ellusive" taste than any other. The more you cook the better your results will be.

I think you're right Stephen.  We "chefs" are always going to be our own worst enemies.  Will we ever be satisfied with every dish we cook - no.  But we all know the elation when we nail a dish ;D.  At the end of the day, we're self taught and do it as a hobby, for the love of the taste and the challenge to produce BIR dishes every time the pan goes on the stove.  In light of this 3 out of 5 aint that bad but it won't stop us trying to improve.  And that is what this is all about and what keeps a forum like this alive.  Long live CR0

[ELW]

Hi Stephen, no this post was just from a new member lookin for an update hopefully from the same people who's posts i had read from 06 till now. Members trials, results & photographs on here were laying the building blocks of bir @ home better than any publication for me, but every now and then a  post like the reclaimed oil idea (from deep fat frying) would appear, which was a potential brick wall for me. At the moment I can produce really tasty curries, but not with the can't leave it alone taste, which Im workin on!
cant cook till the fridge/freezer is clear, thats why im asking so much this week
@Curryhell - yeah the juice is worth the squeeze
Regards
ELW

[natterjak]

I could be completely wrong however.  Any other ideas for the sweet tangy taste I'm looking for?

This could be the conversion of some of the onion compounds into natural sugars through the high heat lapping up the side of the BIR's pan and effectively reducing and frying a small amount of the base sauce at a higher temp than the rest of the sauce gets as it bubbles away in the centre of the pan. A few months ago I was experimenting with recreating this at home by frying 1 or 2 ladles of base sauce in a separate pan until it reduces to a stage where it is a thick paste and sizzling in the oil rather than bubbling and boiling. At a certain stage the colour starts to darken and if tasted you will find a rich, sweet almost caramel flavour which is very moreish and delicious. Combine this paste back into your curry towards the end of the cooking and the effect on overall flavour is amazing.

The downside is the length of time is takes to carry out the whole procedure, but for me cooking on an electric hob at home it's the closest I can get to the gas fired BIR flavour.

[JerryM]

ELW,

for sure it's best to ask when in need - there is real expertice on the site.

the only other advice i can offer is to look at BIR as a jigsaw. this is how i approached it. i firmly believe everything that is needed is on this site. the only way to work out what's right is to try it and accept that you will have failures yet these provide invaluable learning. someone mentioned earlier of 20yrs of experience and i must admit i'm starting to agree - it's a vast art that demands practise along with the theory.

every piece of the jigsaw needs to be in place for the magic to work though.

the only thing i feel lacking on the site is more decent recipes. my current quest is recipe refinement but it's a slow process of trial and error.

we all seem to have different "regional" preferences which muddies the water further.

it's good fun even though the effort needed for a curry night is huge.

[Peripatetic Phil]

the only thing i feel lacking on the site is more decent recipes. my current quest is recipe refinement but it's a slow process of trial and error.

"More" in the sense of a wider range of dishes, Jerry, or "more" in the sense of a greater breadth of choice of recipe for the dishes that are already featured here ?
** Phil.

[Derek Dansak]

Hello paul, phil jerry and all the other old familier peeps at the cro scene. Good to have you on board still !  Where did all the others disappear to  
Things have been quiet on cr0 for a while, as paul so rightly pointed out. Its great some of the old members are still around though. Its encouranging to know i am  not alone on the quest. Its also good to see a few new names as well , nice one!  I must admit since moving house my time to try new curries has been severely disrupted. I did have a couple of interesting outcomes worthy of posting. I think i will begin a new thread for this called " Breakthroughs of 2011"
   Paul i did get a step closer to the savoury moorish taste you mentioned, but i will post that on the new thread.

[PaulP]

Hi DD,

I'm looking forward to your posts. The cr0 member ifindforu recently posted a tantalising threat to "spill the beans" over what he has witnessed in his TA. I'm still waiting to hear about that one.

Cheers

Paul

[Derek Dansak]

Hi paul, i have a good feeling that in the next year or 2 we will all break through to the next level. I reckon we will discover something on our own (amongst cro members) , someone at cr0 will make a new leap of faith , and we will truly reach the next level. I think we have all become stuck at a certain point for 2 long. However the laws of endless experimentation would predict a breakthrough at some point. I will post my findings later when i get time ( i am at work at the mo, so little time to post)  Its not ground breaking but i felt it was very interesting. it might point the way forward