A lesson in my local take-away

[jb]

Great posts JB, the whole chicken bones thing reminds me slightly of Petes chicken jelly posts!

I was trying to find the link to those earlier but I couldn't find them,I remember reading them a few years ago.Gonna try and do some cooking this weekend if I get the chance.

Admin I will post all the recipes in the relevant sections as well no problem,I have a few more posts to go here so hopefully by this weekend they should be done.Meanwhile I forgot here is a link to the curryhouse in question...


http://www.preemtilbury.co.uk/index.php

[JerryM]

not wanting to be party pooper - as i, like us all are wide open for leaning and am sure we will learn much from jb's top notch post.

the only caution from direct experience is in the use of chicken carcase or bones - it's very strong tasting and perhaps i used too much - it put me off using it for base for good (posted sometime ago in i think currytester post). in the real BIR base i've tasted there was no indication of any chicken stock in it either. i'm not disputting it's use only that it may not be an essential factor.

odds on me for making the base are not good - i made base today. i have toyed with adding lemon but that's as far as it's got.

[moonster]

JM,

i appreciate what you are saying with regards to the chicken bones. That is why i am quering how much to use in Razors base recipe of 3L. the restraunts might use a full carcass for 50L for example

I got talking to this guy by accident and i mentioned my favourate curry house from the early nighties and that i was gutted that it had moved from the area.
It only happened to be his sisters restraunt and that he used to work in the kitchen, as we got talking i expressed my frustration of not even becoming close to replicating what i have had from that or any other restraunt.
he put a real emphasis on the chicken bones being the difference between homemade and restraunt currys. now that JB picked up on it yesterday , this has prompted myself to give this a try.


JB, could you ask how much carcass they use in there base and attempt to scale it down please?

thanks

alan ;D

[jb]

Bombay potato
---------------------

Next up I asked the chef I could have a go at making some bombay potatoes,another dish I've been trying to replicate since my earlier home lessons.He asked me to prep two large potatoes into chunks and dice 4 large onions into small pieces.I thought blimey that's a lot of onions but they I soon found out they cooked down to nothing.He actually complimented me on my knife skills and said that I must have done this before which was quite nice.

The next step was to precook the potatoes,the method he showed me was entirely different to that shown on my other lessons and I believe is the method done by another takeaway near me as it produced exactly the same flavour.On my other lessons all I did was to gently boil some potatoes in salted water with a little turmeric until they were nearly cooked and then they were left to cool.

First the pot was heated up and a couple of spoonfuls of oil from the pot on the stove was added and heated.The usual ginger/garlic paste was added together with the 4 diced onions,they were then browned.He then added a spoonful of thinned tomato puree,the potatoes,pinch of salt a little mix powder and then some whole spices.These were a couple of black peppercorns,2 green cardamoms,1 star anise,1 bay leaf and a small piece of cinammon stick.He then put another ladle full of oil in.Why this wasn't put in at the beginning I don't know,I guess he was doing it by eye.He then topped the pan up with a two large mugs of water to cover the potatoes..The lid was then put and it was boiled rapidly until the potatoes were cooked and the liquid had disaperead leaving a thick onion like sauce.There was also plenty of orange spicy oil as well in the bottom of the pan.The potatoes were cooked exactly like the ones from my takeaway-texture was spot on without being mashed on the surface(unlike the technique I'm used to doing).The star anise and cinammon stick was removed and the potatoes were left to cool.

To actually make the bombay potato the usual ginger/garlic was put into a pan with a spoonful of oil,small amount of mix powder and then a small spoonful of base sauce.The potatoes were added and simmered and then a little more base sauce was added.To finish some coriander/spring onion garnish and half a tomato as well.I asked the chef about panch poren spice,he showed me a jar he had and said you can add a small pinch when frying the mix powder on the second stage.

This was very different to my usual efforts,and much tastier with a great flavour.I caught a glimpse once of a tray of precooked potatoes like this in another takeaway so I'm certain now that's how some places do it.Here are my efforts,I took the photos today so the oil has settled somewhat in the bottom of the carton....

.

[Razor]

Hi Moony,

Sorry, I didn't pick up on your query, as it's further up the thread.

when would you add the knorr pots and how many?  I am assuming you would add one pot at the stage where you add the 1.5 litres of water.

also to add the boiled chicken bones, would you just boil a full carcass separately in boiling water and make up the 1.5 litres that way?

Errm, I really wouldn't know mate lol.  I only added the chicken to give me a "lazy" precooked chicken.  looking at it logically, I would guess that if the BIR uses 1 chicken carcass for a 30ltr pot, to replicate it in a 3ltr base, you would probably only need 1 chicken wing, lol ;D

As for the Knorr stock pot's, again, I'm not sure.  Is it a chicken flavour that you're looking for in a base?

I have heard of people using chicken stock for their base but the way I view a base is, it should be a spicy Vegetable stock!

But hey, give it a go, see where it takes you.  I'm all for improving on what we have.

Sorry I wasn't of much help mukka

Ray

[moonster]

no worrys Razor, you have helped me massivley so far.

I love your base and your recipes as it is mate, but that conversation i had years ago and the posts from JB, has really give me the urge to give the chicken bones a try.
once i have an idea of the ratio to use for the bones in your base, i am going to replicate your jalfrezi dish and do a side by side comparison with independent people testing.

hey mate it might lead to no improvement but if it does you will be the first to know ;D

BTW 

how good does that bombay potato look?

thanks

alan ;D

[jb]

When I arrived in the takeaway I literally scrutinized everything they had on their shelves.One thing that caught my eye was a pinkish/red ingredient in a tub behind the chef.I asked the manager about it and he replied that it was their tikka masala paste.He said it had about 9 or 10 ingredients and he was quite happy to show me how to make it when I come back for another lesson when it's not so busy.I had a good look at it.It wasn't really a paste as such but quite thick as though you could cut it with a knife or scoop it out as the chef did when the first order came.I couldn't wait to see him cook it and was gobsmacked on just how easy and quick it was.He actually made about 5 tikka masalas that night.

All he did was get a cold pan,added a small amount of oil and then a chef spoon of this paste.He started to gently reheat it and added a ladle of base sauce.The paste kind of melted in the pan and then he added a  small squirt of uht cream from a carton and then some precooked chicken tikka.Another lot of base sauce went in and it was then left to simmer.That was it.He put it into the takeaway carton,added some flaked almonds,sultanas and a swirl of cream again.

I had a good sniff of this on the side(remembering it was someones order!!!)and it was lovely,quite different from my own efforts,very moreish.I showed him the list of ingredients I use in my tikka masala(I had all of my own notes with me) and he said it was pretty close to their version(but obviously prepared in a different way).I will post my recipe over the weekend.

He then made a chicken korma.Again he used the same method of cooking but used a whitish/yellow paste this time.I can't wait to find out how they make these pastes.

Incidentally at the end of the night he prepared the chicken tikka marinade ready for the next day's service.This is one thing which I'm quite happy to replicate at home and I must say his recipe contained far fewer ingredients than I use.He took some Patak's tikka paste,coleman's mint sauce,fresh coriander,lemon juice,salt,home-made yogurt and some coleman's mustard.Added some orange colour and mixed it.I've tasted the tikka from here and it's very nice,maybe the use of a tandoori oven gives it more flavour.

I know even mentioning Pataks is controversial but as the Manager told me,they could stand and mix their own spices and pastes but they don't bother They end up with more or less the same result and it's a lot cheaper and quicker.They do make their own garam masla.I had a sniff of some of this in a tub and it was so different to shop brought stuff.

[George]

I can't wait to find out how they make these pastes.

Thanks again for these very interesting posts. Here's my guess as to the ingredients in those pastes: Compared to some other recipes and sources, his CTM strikes me as glaring in its apparent omission of sugar, coconut and possibly ground almonds. When I watched the East End web cam last night they seemed to start with three pale powders for what I assumed to be CTM. East End then added a red-ish paste or masala. We know how to make Tandoori Masala from various sources.

My guess is that your take-away probably add the dry powders into the more liquid tandoori masala. This would thicken it up, so it could be 'cut with a knife'. It would be faster for them to produce a dish if the pre-mix is done in advance. On the other hand, perhaps 1 chef spoon doesn't seem enough overall quantity so I might be wrong.

Korma might be similar, with a different mix.

[JerryM]

and the posts from JB, has really give me the urge to give the chicken bones a try.

moonster,

everyone gets to this kind of junction now and then - they simple have to put there mind at rest. i think BIR's obviously used different techniques to achieve the same objective - the ashoka uses margarine which i've adopted as standard but in significantly reduced qty (1 tbsp per 800g onion). what i'm getting at is the same as Razor - vegetable stock suitable to make top notch curry.

when you do try out the bones "chicken stock" from my experience i would pro rata it on the low side along the lines you have said (make stock from 1 carcase and pro rata volume based on say 30L). i would then suggest using 1/2 initially and then gradually adding more to the base whilst it's cooking.

obviously further jb info would save much effort and deliberation.

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2614.0

[JerryM]

I can't wait to find out how they make these pastes.

i see this as our No 1 priority. i am convinced that the remaining gap between our main's and those of BIR are down to the use of pastes. even to know how many pastes are used would be a real step forward (for me anyhow).

so far we know for sure: tikka/tandoori masala, CTM masala, Red Chilli Sauce. i now even think tikka & tandoori can be different

i think there must be a paste used for vindaloo but that's purely guessing.

a big thanks to jb - as i said earlier fascinating stuff.

ps on the pataks - i feel this discussion is done - each to their own but there is ample proof that they are used by BIR's and the real challenge is working out how to use them correctly to achieve that overall balance of taste that BIR's achieve. i still get too much "vinegar" for example.