Topic: A lesson in my local take-away

[moonster]

DD,

thanks for already making the effort with the carcass.
 i am definatley going to put it on hold now, until JB comes up with some clarification on how the chicken bones are used(no pressure then JB ;D).

i think there maybe something in this, like an earlier poster said that gravy always tastes better made out of the juices from the meat.
I do wonder if the same rule of thumb applies to the curry base.

thanks

Alan ;D

[Secret Santa]

On another site ( i shall not mention the name) many moons ago when it was free they had many base sauces which included stock cubes knorr springs to mind as part of the ingredients.

It was first mentioned here pete. Now if only I could remember the nick of the poster!

Anyway he said they used Knorr stock granules I think, catering style.

I'm getting really bored with all the ooohs and ahhhs for chicken stock and pastes and god knows what. It's old hat. Been there done that.

Ok if you are new to the forum it's new stuff and exciting but ffs...ain't nothing new in this old world!

[Secret Santa]

DD,

thanks for already making the effort with the carcass.

Already been done to death mate. When I started to watch Malik's webcam I saw them removing, from a medium size pot, what I could only take to be a chicken carcass. The post's on the forum somewhere. Old hat. Boring!

[moonster]

SS,

been done to death and boring to you mate.

ok like a sheep i will follow your quote and leave well alone. :

just because its been debated before does not mean that we should not explore that particular avenue further. like every debate anywhere, sometimes someone picks up on something and it can be constructive or not ,but surely there is no harm in discussing old issues again.

fair enough if it doesnt suit your needs and it may not mine in the end.
 but why be patronising in the fact i am a new member?
i do believe it is because your so singular in your thoughts and that you see your knolwedge of the subject to be far superior to everyone under 1000 posts and also i have noticed in my short term on this forum if the topic does not fit into your criteria, therefore you seem to deem it unimportant.

well news to you SS, there are more members than just you regardless of the quantity of posts


regards

Alan

[Peripatetic Phil]

Although this is getting a long way from the real subject of this thread, I am starting to think that perhaps our collective obsession with re-creating the perfect BIR is a little bit anally-retentive.  Surely the major breakthrough came with the revelation (by Kris Dhillon and others) that the one thing that differentiates a BIR curry from an authentic Indian curry is that the former derives its texture, and a significant part of its taste, from a base sauce in which finely pureed onion forms a major part, and from the use of an excess of oil when cooking the finished dish.  Once we have accepted that, all else is just the icing on the cake : recycled oil, chicken stock, asafoetida (hing), "secret" spices mixes and so on -- all will make a difference, but as (almost) each and every one of us has developed his/her taste for BIR curries by exposure to different restaurants and take-aways, there can be no one recipe that will seem perfect to all.  My first exposure to curries came about 45 years ago, and it did not take me long to realise that every Indian restaurant would produce a different flavour for the same name.  Similar, yes, but not the same.

So whilst I am as enthusiastic as any member of this forum in wanting to achieve the perfect curry, I no longer believe that "perfect" necessarily means "identical to those served at the Taj of Kent" (today) or "identical to those served in the Maharaja of Chislehurst" (45 years ago).  Maybe yesterday's curry, made primarily with rabbit and chicken stock, wasn't identical to a curry from the Taj of Kent. but it was as good, and as tasty, and met all of my criteria for success, the main one being that I wanted to carry on eating the sauce with the chapati long after all the chicken had gone !

** Phil.

[TyeNoodle]

Although this is getting a long way from the real subject of this thread, I am starting to think that perhaps our collective obsession with re-creating the perfect BIR is a little bit anally-retentive.  Surely the major breakthrough came with the revelation (by Kris Dhillon and others) that the one thing that differentiates a BIR curry from an authentic Indian curry is that the former derives its texture, and a significant part of its taste, from a base sauce in which finely pureed onion forms a major part, and from the use of an excess of oil when cooking the finished dish.  Once we have accepted that, all else is just the icing on the cake : recycled oil, chicken stock, asafoetida (hing), "secret" spices mixes and so on -- all will make a difference, but as (almost) each and every one of us has developed his/her taste for BIR curries by exposure to different restaurants and take-aways, there can be no one recipe that will seem perfect to all.  My first exposure to curries came about 45 years ago, and it did not take me long to realise that every Indian restaurant would produce a different flavour for the same name.  Similar, yes, but not the same.

So whilst I am as enthusiastic as any member of this forum in wanting to achieve the perfect curry, I no longer believe that "perfect" necessarily means "identical to those served at the Taj of Kent" (today) or "identical to those served in the Maharaja of Chislehurst" (45 years ago).  Maybe yesterday's curry, made primarily with rabbit and chicken stock, wasn't identical to a curry from the Taj of Kent. but it was as good, and as tasty, and met all of my criteria for success, the main one being that I wanted to carry on eating the sauce with the chapati long after all the chicken had gone !

** Phil.

Quite true Phil, I think there are too many variations between each BIR to create a 'Universally' perfect curry at home. Rather concentrate on replicating your favourite dish from the local t/a, thats what I'm trying to do.. I cook for 4/6 people on average, often with very good results but I do mess up from time to time and am happy enough to have friends that will try and point out whats missing. Thankfully rare times though I was offered to help in the kitchen of our local last Sunday, wish I did but I'd been driving all day and really just wanted to eat then sleep. Next time though maybe, I'll get my little camera on too..

It's all about having fun though aint it.. well for me it is anyway

Jb, excellent thread. I'll be trying it out in the next week or so. Good on you for getting into places and being brave enough to do the asking!

[Secret Santa]

Maybe yesterday's curry, made primarily with rabbit and chicken stock

Rabbit? Where did you get that idea from?

I doubt very much that rabbit has ever seen the inside of any BIR, at any time, past or present.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Rabbit? Where did you get that idea from? I doubt very much that rabbit has ever seen the inside of any BIR, at any time, past or present.

I fully agree, rabbit is probably completely alien to BIR cuisine.  None the less, as I explained when I first mentioned rabbit some weeks ago, the idea came to me when I wanted to make a curry and had no pre-made base sauce; what I did have was the remains of a rabbit pie (rabbit bones, stock, leeks and lemon).  I therefore improvised, pureed the leeks in lieu of onions, added sufficient rabbit stock to achieve the desired consistency and then basically followed KD's methodology thereafter.  The results were superb -- easily as good as any I have achieved using a purist BIR approach -- and so I now include leeks and rabbit stock in my BIR chef's armoury, to be used whenever appropriate.

** Phil.

P.S. In some parts of the country, wild rabbit probably represents better value (i.e., costs less per pound) than chicken, so I would not entirely rule out the possibility that some of the more rural yet enterprising BIRs have already incorporated rabbit into their recipes.

[JerryM]

jb,

many thanks for comment on the pastes. the balti paste comment is particularly interesting. i've not got balti as close as i'd like. Razor's Kushi Basic Balti and Dipuraja's Balti are the closest i've found. Dipuraja's uses pataks balti paste which i have to say works very well. the idea of adapting the pataks sounds very promising.

the other type of dish i've not got close on is rogan josh. i can't even state a recipe.

ps i'm plucking up courage to taste the pre cooked chicken marinade (ashoka recipe) - something i've not done but feel given your report feel a need if only to put my mind a rest. to be honest i can't see the chicken stock/carcase producing the curry i love. the chicken marinade is a very different kettle of fish - i see it producing a very subtle taste which would not overpower yet has the potential to deliver significant depth of flavour.

[Unclefrank]

The chicken stock i make is pretty simple really just a chicken carcass, about 2 carrots chopped, one medium onion cut in half and water just covering the whole lot and simmer for about 3 to 4 hours, half way through i smash the carcass up (still in pot) and keep bashing the carcass until the whole thing is in bits. Let the whole thing go cold, you will have roughly 8 chefs ladles of jelly stock and i use 1 chef ladles in my curries and it adds a lot of depth and flavour to the finished curry.
Not a world shattering thing but it works for me.
Jb thanks again for posting all of your recipes.Cheers.