Oh I really cant bring myself to say it 

Im sure secretsanta will elaborate once again  ;D

Interesting posts?

Thanks for you efforts Bobby - a fair test as far as I can see, but I get the feeling you're beating your head against the wall here.

In my opinion a base gravy is essentially an onion based stock and should be compatible with most "curry base" type recipes.

If a curry base is made too suit one particular curry recipe (eg: a madras) then it probably does lack versatility and should not be classified a BIR base gravy.

A good test to whether a base gravy is versatile or not, would be to substitute it into some of KD's recipes.

Just my opinion.

SnS  ;D

Mixing and matching is not ideal but how many madras\vindaloo recipes have we seen from BIR's that are almost exactly the same, most of them, a few have some subtle differences.  The way I see it a good base sauce should be able to produce a decent result from a basic madras recipe. 

Quote from: smokenspices on March 11, 2008, 02:21 PM
If a curry base is made too suit one particular curry recipe (eg: a madras) then it probably does lack versatility and should not be classified a BIR base gravy.

You see, I really dont know where this comes from regardin darths base?  

I'll repeat, darths base is a standard base (if you omit optional chilli) without any tomatoes in it (because he adds tomatoes in the main recipe).  

And it is a bloody good base capable of making the whole range of curries.  

Now, granted, if you want a tomatoey flavour then you are going to have to add some tomtoes to it arent you (which I think is secretsantas an domis point about not being able to mix bases and main recipes bobby, though i dont tend to agree totally with it)!  

Bleeding obvious Id say  :

Quote from: smokenspices on March 11, 2008, 02:21 PM
Thanks for you efforts Bobby - a fair test as far as I can see, but I get the feeling you're beating your head against the wall here.

;D thanks SnS, I've been looking forward to hearing from you on this topic. Yes, using some KD recipes would be a fair test, but no fairer than using the Rajver in my opinion. KD recipies are just other examples of simple, generic third party recipes.

Quote from: Rai on March 11, 2008, 02:34 PM
Now, granted, if you want a tomatoey flavour then you are going to have to add some tomtoes to it arent you (which I think is secretsantas an domis point about not being able to mix bases and main recipes bobby, though i dont tend to agree totally with it)!

I have no idea what you're trying to address here. Of course if you want it to taste more "tomatoey" you have to add tomato in some form. However, it makes a great Madras from the simple Madras recipe as is, and so obviously can be used with other recipes, although may not perform to it's optimum. However, in this case, we are not testing the optimum performace of the base - we are testing how well it can conform with a generic recipe.

Quote from: Rai on March 11, 2008, 02:16 PM
Maybe put them head to head with the saffron madras too then (or the rajver base and madras)?  I think all youll be doing is proving secretsantas (and domis) point

The simple Madras recipe included with the Saffron base thread was there as an example of how the Saffron restaurant prepared a Madras using their own gravy. The recipe is "rough" as it was quickly demonstrated to me and no accurate measurements were taken (I actually regret posting it now). It was the gravy that was the main subject of that thread, not the Madras.

The Saffron base recipe provides an authentic BIR curry base recipe, which is flexible enough to be used with most BIR curry recipes.

There are far better "refined" Madras recipe's available on this site which could be used with the Saffron base.


SnS  ;D

Quote from: Bobby Bhuna on March 11, 2008, 02:40 PM
I have no idea what you're trying to address here. Of course if you want it to taste more "tomatoey" you have to add tomato in some form. However, it makes a great Madras from the simple Madras recipe as is, and so obviously can be used with other recipes, although may not perform to it's optimum. However, in this case, we are not testing the optimum performace of the base - we are testing how well it can conform with a generic recipe.

huh? Sorry, I really didnt understand much of that

It's interesting to note that out of 36 listed BIR style curry base recipes on this forum, only 2 have no tomato or tomato puree included.

Should we conclude from this (assuming that all or most are genuine BIR recipes), that there should be at least some tomato or tomato puree in the base recipe to fulfil the versatility requirement?

SnS  ;D

Quote from: smokenspices on March 11, 2008, 03:14 PM
Should we conclude from this (assuming that all or most are genuine BIR recipes), that there should be at least some tomato or tomato puree in the base recipe to fulfil the versatility requirement?

This would seem to be the case. It seems fairly obvious to me that most currys contain tomatoes in some form. In which case, it would save the BIR time to try and accommodate this in the base sauce, rather than having to add ingredients to each curry at the final stage.

I can understand the use of Tomato Puree at the final stage, as it helps with consistency and cooking the spices without burning them and also contributes to producing the BIR "toffee" smell.

I cannot however understand the use of Pasatta in the final stage dish. It would cool the pan down too much and waste cooking time. It's also more expensive than tinned tomatoes in my local supermarket. Finally, I never heard, from the many first hand BIR kitchen encounters on this site, of the use of Pasatta in curry cooking.

Taking this into account, coupled with the fact that we know that most curries contain a fresh / tinned tomato element, I have to conclude, as SnS suggests, the tomatoes must be added at the base sauce stage.