Topic: How do I stop powder coming through in the curry

[JerryM]

this is a bit along the lines of CA's recent post (on using lots of chilli powder).

up-till now i've only used max 2 tsp of spice in a single portion (200ml finished).

this week i tried adding a lot more paprika than i normally do (3 tsp & 2 tsp). i found that i could not get rid of the powdery taste.

this powdery taste seems to only occur with some spices ie paprika & chilli (maybe others i don't know). it does not happen with say curry powder.

i tried adding it to watered tomato puree without success although i did not leave it for any length of time.

i guess it's down to how fine the powder has been ground.

any thoughts appreciated.

for background i was trying to replicate madras curry sauce. i was working around CK's recipe (oil, g/g, puree, salt, chilli, paprika, base, coriander).

[976bar]

this is a bit along the lines of CA's recent post (on using lots of chilli powder).

up-till now i've only used max 2 tsp of spice in a single portion (200ml finished).

this week i tried adding a lot more paprika than i normally do (3 tsp & 2 tsp). i found that i could not get rid of the powdery taste.

this powdery taste seems to only occur with some spices ie paprika & chilli (maybe others i don't know). it does not happen with say curry powder.

i tried adding it to watered tomato puree without success although i did not leave it for any length of time.

i guess it's down to how fine the powder has been ground.

any thoughts appreciated.

for background i was trying to replicate madras curry sauce. i was working around CK's recipe (oil, g/g, puree, salt, chilli, paprika, base, coriander).

Jerry, Try adding it to tomato puree with hot water, it might dissolve the powder better.

[JerryM]

976bar,

i'll give it try - sounds as if it's got a good chance of working.

it was DD's post that got me thinking about this ie BIR's adding spice (pataks paste actually but the principle being spice) to tom puree and presumably not adding it separately at frying stage http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3793.msg34639#msg34639

[Panpot]

JerryM, I tend to use fresh chili finely chopped and cooked in with the Garlic/Ginger paste. For friends who are maniacs I have them sliced and put on top as a garnish to the final dish. Cheers PP

[Mikka1]

Glad you posted this Jerry. I had the same problem for ages following some recipes I found. After you've added a TBS of spice then added base which is like thin soup after all I was having this problem too.

These days I add less but as I've said elsewhere its almost like defeating the purpose isn't it? I'm pretty sure they use water in curries here as well as base. In fact you'd be hard pressed to notice there is any powder in some dishes apart from the odd piece that was not ground properly, or perhaps on purpose?

I'm losing it a bit with all this to be honest. (My cooking). The spice oil does make a difference, so too the tom paste mix, even hot sauce makes a huge difference, as does tomato ketchup if used correctly. But it just doesn't come anywhere near what they do. I guess I'm going through a bad time with cooking but I find it soooooo annoying.

I've tried just about every conceivable combo and sometimes created a great dish. But......... if it were placed side by side? No contest, they win hands down. 

I looked at the Shaan spice mix packets again yesterday and opened a few up, looked at the instructions and gave them all a darned good smell. What strikes me is how little there is and how pungent they are yet the contents state nothing unusual.

I think everything is there but the main ingredient in my case. Spice. What do they do with it? Ground Cumin seeds mixed with ground coriander seeds for example don't smell that appealing. Certainly looking at these packets which serve up a good meal in most cases don't smell like that at all. So what the heck is it?

One recipe I followed stated about 3 TBS of spice. Once the base went in I imagine this ended up just like what you are talking about perhaps? Almost like a sand curry? Horrible and a million miles from the take out. :

Oh well...

[Razor]

Hi Guys,

  I think the trick is a good quantity of oil in the pan.  Fry off your garlic/ginger/tomato pastes (if using all three, or any combo really!)  Once the paste is golden (only visible if not using tomato) I would suggest about 1 minute on full heat, take the pan off the heat and add the spice blend, including extra chilli or paprika if you using it.  Keep stirring vigorously with the back off the chef's spoon.  The oil should like fizz up.  Once it has stopped fizzing, put back over the heat and procede with the rest of the dish. 

This method has never failed me yet

Ray

[Mikka1]

Hey Ray.
Perhaps you are right, I really don't know any more myself. I know oil plays a large part but there are so many videos on line showing people using less which doesn't pan at all with me.

I usually go with plain instinct, never measure and the results are pretty darned good. But not against the real thing it's so frustrating. My final thing is spice blends. Spice doesn't cost that much where I am so instead of serving myself half meals I want something concrete at last.

Something in my head tells me you are right though. After all it cannot be any coincidence that using the same recipe again and again varies so much. After all there are not that many variables. Spice in a 360 degree deep fat fryer doesn't burn for example in Bahjis.

I'll post another on this tomorrow. There are some things that I know do work and the results are 100%.

Good post Ray, Thank you.

Hi Guys,

I think the trick is a good quantity of oil in the pan.  Fry off your garlic/ginger/tomato pastes (if using all three, or any combo really!)  Once the paste is golden (only visible if not using tomato) I would suggest about 1 minute on full heat, take the pan off the heat and add the spice blend, including extra chilli or paprika if you using it.  Keep stirring vigorously with the back off the chef's spoon.  The oil should like fizz up.  Once it has stopped fizzing, put back over the heat and procede with the rest of the dish. 

This method has never failed me yet

Ray

[JerryM]

Razor/Mikka,

appreciate your thoughts.

this came about from DD's post indicating that BIR add spice to their "tom puree/water paste". when i looked at the pataks ingredients there was nothing different to what is already in the curry ie garlic, ginger etc. the pataks basically was adding a spice - in their case bassar which i already have in powder form and use regular.

what i was unsure of was whether BIR's might add other ingredients to make a specific "tomato paste" for use in some dishes - like madras curry sauce. i tried paprika & chilli using more per portion than i've done before (4 tsp in 200ml finished portion) and got this "sand" curry for the 1st time.

i think Ray's idea of adding more oil might work as the large amount of powder does stand out as "excessive" and is difficult to mix in. i used water to overcome it. i also tried a long fry which did not work but thinking about it now was probably down to not enough oil.

the idea of using a v.large amount of powder is ONLY aimed at madras curry sauce. i am totally sold on minimal spice for the rest of the dishes - this was the 1st time i'd really had chance to assess a low spiced base and low spice dishes - it worked for me. i'm now at 1 tsp max spice per portion as opposed to 2 tsp in the past. i've even substantially cut down on using curry powder.

ps Mikka as for loosing it - i've had same experience many times. it's inevitable for me given u have to experiment to improve. u just need to know when to stop ie when something works well enough. not easy though. at least by keeping trying things u can stop the niggle u get when u don't know for sure.

[Secret Santa]

I think razor may be right when he says it's possibly down to the amount of oil used to cook the spices. Many years ago I dabbled with oil-free curries and I seem to remember that they had a slightly gritty texture, whereas the same curry made previously with oil did not.

Personally I use quite a lot of oil, perhaps 4 TBSP (at least) per serving, and I just don't get this gritty/sandy effect.

For example I made a vindaloo the other day, I used about 4 tsp hot chilli powder and 2 tsp ground black pepper, far more than Jerry would use, as well as the other spices, and the sauce was smooth with no hint of gritiness.

The only real effect I notice when using large amounts of spices is that they thicken the sauce more.

Also, I remember some people having the problem of water separating from the curry and making the rice soggy when served up. Again I'm sure this is due to the use of too little oil. There has to be a sufficient amount of oil to form an emulsion with the water in the curry to 'hold it in'.

In my opinion oil should be used generously and, if necessary, spooned off at the end of cooking, or after letting the curry rest for a few minutes.

[Mikka1]

Thanks for the replies folks, all very helpful.
Ok this is how I see it and remember I'm going through a tough spell as regards this so all can be ignored.  ;D

I can make a sauce taste like Cumin. I can make a sauce taste like cumin with cloves, like Garlic, Ginger, Methi and so on etc.

What I cannot do is match the restaurant at all. I come pretty darned close to one place with my Vindy but they are preparing it in a more home-style way. The others? Not on your nelly, I'm a million miles away from achieving this and they are all similar.

In my case there is a spice/combination of spice seriously missing in all dishes. Its not that they haven't cooked through its that its just not there.

[Santa on your Pepper additions) You know I love pepper and have wondered about this for some time. Thanks for that.

In essence this is about my spice mix. It's nowhere near what I'm being served and I've tried about 20 different variations too. My thinking is that they are adding a spice not usually added to meat dishes or they do something to the spice prior to grinding?

On the Tomato paste thing.... I've asked several people if they ever tasted the (RED) tomato paste which we are told is JUST tomato paste. I have different info from an owner here who confirmed it is not just tomato paste.

Ajwain seems to knock at me head a lot these days for example. Horrible in Butter chicken, delicious with Lamb though its supposed to be for veggie dishes right?

I guess I'm clutching at straws at the moment but I do think a damned good natter with people about this might get my cooking juices going again, I just love cooking but I like it simple and to know what I'm doing rather than testing.

Thanks again folks. Good thread.