Topic: Why is my curry base bitter?

[Secret Santa]

I'd be very interested to fine out more about this 'neutralization', do you mave any references for this SS?

I originally got the info from a PhD thesis. The actual thesis was mostly incomprehensible but the Abstract was fairly readable. I've tried to find it on the web again and I can't (it was a couple of years ago when I last saw it).

[Domi]

If it's bitter, add salt.....I've never had a bitter base either, maybe that's because I always add a little salt to my onion? I have had sour results when using passata which salting won't help as sugar is needed to counter sourness.


This article is about the effect of salt on bitterness....

http://shopping.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,1044951,00.html

[JerryM]

i'm with bobby on this one and sit perched up high. never had a bitter sauce.

my experiences as follows to help a little:

1) salt is key - don't need a lot mind you 1 to 2 tsp ish (masking the taste has me lol and lol and lol)
2) cooking time/intensity is crucial - smell and taste the base all the way through cooking - i seriously worry about there being none left sometimes. don't stop cooking the onions until that raw smell & taste has gone
3) size does matter - cut into 1/4'rs only (otherwise cut them smaller cook em longer)
4) pan surface area seems to make a difference on cooking time - squat wide pan best
5) need to give them a few stirs during cooking
6 add plenty of olive oil (sorry could not resist the joke)

[Rai]

masking the taste has me lol and lol and lol

Sorry jerry, i think might find that he who laughs last might laugh loudest in this case then.

I'm thinking in terms of the five basic taste sensors.  Many people seem to think that salt counteracting bitterness is biological in this regard.  That is "masking" rather than chemical in nature.  I suggest that you maybe check it out a bit further before you lol too much?

[JerryM]

he who laughs last might laugh loudest in this case

you've got me in stitches now.

i suppose i try to be too healthy some times for example i don't put extra salt into any of my cooking except indian and making bread. i also reserve sprinkling of salt to chips only. what i am saying is my taste buds go into alarm as soon as they so much as smell a bit of salt. so masking the taste is clearly well ott for me.

there are some instances when you need salt ie making bread. getting the bitterness out of onions is another must use for me.

[Rai]

you've got me in stitches now

Sorry jerry, for the life of me i still cant work out what it is that youre laughing at? 

I thought you were laughing at my suggestion that the salt masks the taste of bitterness (rather than by neutralising any acids present)?   

[JerryM]

Rai,

sorry. it was the masking that initially got me going. but then i realised you were having a good laugh as well and that got me going a 2nd time.

all the best.

[makum101]

Sorry to resurrect this topic but every base Ive made (SNS, darth and Safron as well as others numerous times) has been bitter. I have a stainless steel Karachi, wooden spoon so its not metal.

I suffer from Extreme Hypertension (High blood pressure) so adding loads of salt is out the question. Any salt I use is 'Low Salt' variety. Could this be the cause?

Could it be the fluoride in our water up here in the north?

If so what can I do to sweeten and remove the bitterness other than salt?

Some people mention cooking for longer. Has anyone tried it in a slow cooker for say 8 to 10 hours?

[JerryM]

makum101,

it's a v.good topic. u don't need "loads" of salt but i'm pretty sure it's a key ingredient and although we have low salt i would not use it in a curry. i use 1 tsp per 800 g onion and it works well. i also cook (simmer) the base for at least 3 hrs (2 hrs lid on, blend, 1+ hrs lid off, adding back water to maintain the initial blended volume).

i'm up north so it's not the fluoride.

i had it in my mind a while back that my bases were not sweet enough. i've never had a bitter base though and have made SNS & Saffron. at the time i started adding Jaggery {palm sugar} following ifindforu's prompt. i tried several amounts and ended up using 1 off sugar lump size per 800g onion (~10mm cube). at some point i found i did not need it and have stopped using it. it did work however as a sticking plaster.

i also use anis as a whole spice which i feel has some effect on the sweetness of the onion (1 off per 800g onion taking it out before blending).

i only ever use bog std onions ie brown and only boil them. i don't cut them up small (1/4's).

i also limit the amount of initial water that i add (for the lid on stage). 20% of the onion by volume (300ml per 800g onion). i then add the extra water after blending. i feel by limiting the water in the earlier stage it helps with the sweetness. i fully believe this is not done by BIR's and therefore not a necessity. nevertheless it's a further option to consider.

i can probably find the relevant links if u need.

[CurryOnRegardless]

Hi makum101.

It might help to fry/saute the onions before adding the rest of the ingredients. Use a stock pot or pan with a very tight fitting lid and fry the onions on a med/high heat for a few minutes then turn the heat down as low as it will go, put the lid on and let them stew in their own juices for about 20 mins or so, stirring occasionally so they don't catch and then proceed as per whatever recipe you are making. HTH.

Regards
CoR