Topic: the real base sauce taught by Indian chef

[ronnoc]

hi bobby. no worries. excuse me for my dummy spitting also. it is hard trying to balance typing at the PC and deal with a baby. maybe now we can all work together to get further results.
one thing i may add is remember to add a little more water after blending. a thickish soup consistancy. not too watery. then boil for a further 10mins or so. you may like to add only 15-20grams of g/g about 1 level table spoon. just Haldi felt it was strong in this area. though when you look at other bases on here they use heaps but i don't want you to waste it. you can always add more at the final stage. the chef always adds about 1/2 a tea spoon to the final dish as he says it tastes better freshly cooked.
ronnoc

[George]

KORMA...add 4 heaped table spoon of ground almond or cashew or coconut. YOUR CHOICE...now add 1/4 of a pint of condenced cream OR DOUBLE CREAM and stir for another minute or two...now go on tell me this is not the real deal!

Ronnoc - thank you for posting this recipe. I look forward to trying it, given that korma is one of my favourite dishes. It's also one of the cheapest dishes on any BIR menu I've ever seen. So would any BIR really ever use such comparatively vast amounts of costly ground almonds, cashews (even more expensive) or even coconut. I don't doubt it could taste good but would it be cost effective for them? I think I've seen takeawys use UHT milk to make up quite a lot of the volume of the korma sauce, which might make more sense as it's quite cheap. Your friendly takeaway presumably doesn't vary the recipe from day to day or customer to customer - I've never been given a choice of ingredients when I've ordered a korma! Do you know which of these various ingredients they actually use, please?

Regards
George

[SnS]

Hi George

Korma is one of those dishes that has so many BIR variations. A cheap Korma tastes cheap, but a well made Korma with those extra expensive ingredients tastes totally different (even sickly for us vindaloo/phall freaks).... and you should find that a good Korma (if it uses the best ingredients), is not one of the cheapest items on the menu (and an authentic Korma is actually quite hot).

After a little bit of studying, I'm planning to magic up a Chicken Korma this weekend, but using the Saffron base (I think it's mild enough to use). I have no idea how this is going to pan out, but I will also be getting a Korma takeaway (from Saffron) to compare (and hopefully a few extra tips).

From what Raj said, they use a different base for Korma's and Passanda's - but what the hell - I'll give it a go. If Ronnac's works, I can't see why this shouldn't.

I intend using almond powder (which is not expensive), yoghurt, condensed milk (from a Carnation tin) and perhaps a bit of coconut (not sure in what form yet) and maybe a few toasted almond flakes, but just for garnish. Basically I'm going to try to replicate the BIR style.

I agree with your previous comments regarding cost. Cashews are very expensive and unlikely to be used in the dish, other than for garnish.

Pistachio nuts are also a bit of a luxury, but I have seen these in Korma recipes (not BIR though).

Double cream - well again an expensive item - unlikely to be used in the BIR cooking process. The only time I've seen cream used (and that is a tiny bit of single cream) is when they add it to the final dish before serving, with a little spiral swirl (for affect).

Should I succeed, I will keep you posted (illustrated), but it will be on the Saffron thread.

Regards

SnS  ;D

[JerryM]

George,

smokenspices post is spot on. i think the price is down to where you buy. i aim only to buy from my nearest Indian supermarkets which are well competitive compared to the likes of asda. eg my almond powder 300g was ?1.80 which having used 4 tbsp in ronnoc's korma i calculate worked out at 36p for 3 people. the creamed coconut that i use in CA's CTM is a steel at 200g for 30p.

i also only use carnation milk (evaporated milk) and not cream. i also find that it goes further than would be the case for the cream equivalent (due to it's concentrated flavour).

[Cory Ander]

Do you know which of these various ingredients they actually use, please?

I took it that George's  point was that a particular chef/takeaway is unlikey to use the range of alternative ingredients offered by Ronnoc here. 

So George's question was, as I understood it, which of all these alternatives does this chef/takeaway actually use Ronnoc:

- Ground almond and/or cashew and/or coconut?

- Condensed cream (whatever that is?) and/or double cream?

My guess would be coconut powder, sugar and UHT cream (not milk George).

Condensed milk (thick, sweet, sickly stuff) is not the same as evaporated milk either SnS.

[George]

So George's question was, as I understood it, which of all these alternatives does this chef/takeaway actually use...

Cory and others

Yes, the above is one of my key questions. Many thanks for your thoughts on this matter. I agree there may be more variation in BIR kormas than I thought up to a few years back, when after decades of ordering BIR kormas, I thought they were all so similar. But I am talking only about BIR bog-standard kormas here - not supermarket chilled food, frozen food or authentic (proper Indian) kormas.

In the vast majority of BIRs and take-aways, their kormas are cheap compared to certain other dishes. I had a hunch they may say the ingredients include almonds or some exotic nuts purely because it sounds good on the menu. But it may be lip service with only perhaps 1 tsp added. Just a hunch; no proof or evidence. I'm interested to hear what Ronnoc has seen.

Regards
George

[SnS]

Condensed milk (thick, sweet, sickly stuff) is not the same as evaporated milk either SnS.

Yes I do know that CA. What made you think otherwise? 

[Cory Ander]

I only mention it because people seem to be getting confused with "condensed cream" versus "condensed milk" verus "double cream" versus "UHT milk" versus "UHT cream", etc.  Well, I know I am! 

But, if you're thinking of using condensed milk, I really wouldn't be looking to add too much of it.  It not only makes it distinctively sweet, it also gives it a "congealed" quality. I don't think many BIRs will be using it.

[George]

I am talking only about BIR bog-standard kormas here - not supermarket chilled food, frozen food or authentic (proper Indian) kormas. In the vast majority of BIRs and take-aways, their kormas are cheap compared to certain other dishes.

Ronnoc and others

I just had a further thought. I don't think you indicated the type of BIR which you visit. If it's a top-notch place, that could explain the lavish use of relatively high volumes of quite costly ingredients in a korma. I know a few places where the kormas are better, richer and a lot more expensive than at most BIRs. But at such resturants, every item on the menu is more expensive. Is your resturant like one of those, by any chance?

Regards
George

[ronnoc]

o.k.-o.k.
the questions are worth asking.
i have not made things easy with what i first thought. i do mention all these varied ingredients because i am sure i have seen on varied menues them all mentioned at some points. so i was hopeing to save my self the hassel of someone saying my menue says ground almond not coconut. or my takeaway says cashew not e.t.c. e.t.c.

as for the milk cream e.t.c.
to be totally honest i can't argue with anyone as i am not totally sure.
it looked like a carton of condence cream or carnation cream milk. but on each of your own menue it may say which they use.

however you may think that this is a cop out but it is not. i use semi skimmed milk as i always try and cut down on the fatty stuff if i can. you may yogurt or a mix of the two. i really don't think it matters that much as long as it is about 1/4 pint.
i get great results with semi skimmed milk.

for the nut part of it. he uses and i follow the same. roughly 3 heaped table spoons of ground almond powder, to 1 heaped table spoon of coconut powder. roughly meening he lifts this up with his chefs spoon to what i feel adds to what i say above. again, not really that important as long as is roughly about what i suggest.

oil. he puts roughly two chefs spoons in his pan (roughly 8 to 10 table spoons).
i use less for my own health reasons.
oil heated up medium high. i only have an electric hob so use your ways.
fry 1/4 to 1/2 tea spoon of garlic/g until translucent
remove from heat
now carefully fry a rounded dessert spoon of curry powder-your choice
remove from heat here and there to keep heat under control-my method but use what works for maybe a minute until smells right
remove from heat and you can turn down to a gental simmer. but really use what works for you without burning anything.
add the coconut and ground nut e.t.c. and return to pan stirring well to coat everything with a gental fry. add meat veg pre-cooked.
do not allow to become too dry by adding cream/milk of your choice stirring all the time. be ready to add the base sauce a little at a time at any stage to prevent sticking 1/2 pint in total.
now simmer after a last stir. when oil floats to top is done.
garish with corriander flaked almonds
really now i must call off and try and get back over weekend with my own photos .
where i can answer more questions.
cory you said you would help. please feel free to order this post better and i can look over it.
ronnoc