Topic: MBC's Retro Madras

[MonsieurBadgerCheese]

Hi chewytikka,

Haha, ok, that's me told! Guess you're right, it's probably just 'romantic ex-pat nonsense'. Maybe I've been away too long!

You're right. I'm not that used to posting recipes, and am more than open to criticism. Was just trying to contribute by sharing some thoughts. Glad to be educated though, and look forward to trying some of the recipes on the Forum here.

The 'Indian' restaurants here in Lyon are so bad that perhaps I've just convinced myself that anything is better!

Thanks for your input.

MBC

[Garp]

Hi MBC.

Haven't tried this yet but I have to agree about the methi (both ground seed and leaf). When I first started trying to make BIR-style curries, I used a base with fenugreek powder in it and I still use it. I also add it to my spice mix. I totally agree that fenugreek gives that BIR flavour to a dish.

Have to agree about Lyon curries.

[pete]

will try this recipe on Saturday. I am totally clear on the different flavours between the two types of curry. I have been lucky enough to tsste the old style BIR gravy. It is subtle and absolutely gorgeous. Its the underlying flavour of all the curries. The cooking methods for the curries are far simpler. Sometimes all thats needed is extra chilli. The old style BIR base is nothing like modern bases. One incredibly important ingredient is the old bhajee oil. This oil is heavy with all sorts of flavours. It almost sets when its chilled. I've seen it on many occasions.Its real and you cant make genuine old school BIR without it. Not trying to start an argument, but just because you've not seen something doesn't make it untrue, does it? I have had so much enjoyment from Chewys recipes.Reading and trying them. But I feel his critisism is unfair. Perhaps what I have seen is a local thing but then again, perhaps what he knows is

[littlechilie]

Hi chewytikka,

Haha, ok, that's me told! Guess you're right, it's probably just 'romantic ex-pat nonsense'. Maybe I've been away too long!

You're right. I'm not that used to posting recipes, and am more than open to criticism. Was just trying to contribute by sharing some thoughts. Glad to be educated though, and look forward to trying some of the recipes on the Forum here.

The 'Indian' restaurants here in Lyon are so bad that perhaps I've just convinced myself that anything is better!

Thanks for your input.

MBC

Glad your seeing the light MBC  above are wise words. As iposted at the start of your thread and got shot down by a couple of quick to stick!

[MonsieurBadgerCheese]

Thanks for further highlighting the error of my ways, littlechilie. Not sure what you are trying to achieve though. Clearly you are quite the authority on all things BIR, so I look forward to any constructive advice which you may have to offer.

MBC.

[littlechilie]

Thanks MBC, bir is not about authority but about mastering the use of simple but effective ingredients, it's when we try to step outside this boundary we go wrong. I wish you great success in mastering the great resources on the forum and look forwards to your imput and achievements.
Best Lc.

[pete]

I made this tonight with king prawns. It does have something of the old style curries about it, but it is still missing that special flavour.Maybe its the base I used. That onion powder is odd stuff,though. It smells almost like fried onion. A very enjoyable curry but sorry MBC not quite there for me. Sorry I can't be more constructive. Short of the manky old oil, I can't think how to change it

[pete]

Been thinking about this
I would love to get the flavour I'm after
I had pretty much given up, but this sort of set me off again
I think the fenugreek seed powder is right
The onion powder certainly does no harm and it does have a fried onion aroma
I don't think it needs tomato puree, it's too strong a flavour
I think blended canned tomatoes is closer
garlic ginger is right too
maybe not the garlic powder
I reckon that the base needs to be different
I think a very simple base made with Onion garlic ginger but also chicken bones/scraps and not overspiced
Maybe bayleaf and cardomon
There's got be someone who knows
This is just so frustrating

About five years ago I was in a takeaway kitchen and  allowed to cook my own curry using an old style base.
Absolutely nothing clever about cooking the curry
None of this "pre heat the pan, get the oil really hot, don't burn the garlic, fry out the spices" milarky
All you did was heat the curry gravy, add a little salt, chilli powder and pre cooked main ingredients.
The curry I cooked was a perfect madras

Maybe a pinch of fenugreek leaves or garam masala went into other curries I saw prepared
A couple had a prefried garlic paste
Some had some deep fried onion and peppers added
A few had cream, coconut powder, sugar, red masala paste added
But it's REALLY simple stuff when you've got this base

I was lucky enough to see the base prepared and it's so simple except for one ingredient
This flavoured oil

Basically the gravy is loads of onions & a small can of tomatoes boiled with salt and turmeric
After one a half hours, add curry powder and about two litres of strained old oil

Straining takes out all the burnt bits and impurities left behind

As soon as this oil goes in the gravy, the BIR aroma magically appears
You know that smell when you open a carton of curry
Or the smell on the carrier bag which has got about three curries in
Well it's that, except much bigger because there is so much in the pot

I've even tasted this oil on it's own
It was kept in a fridge
It's slightly hot, and has a used slightly spicy flavour
It's not as runny as fresh oil and the base of the container seems to be almost setting (maybe ghee or fat?)
I don't know if it's just from cooking bhajees or chicken or what
But I got quite obsessed with trying to duplicate it
and I failed

I cook some really great curries
But I want to cook the best
And old style BIR are the best

[chewytikka]

All a bit psychotic pete,
A quite sad and misguided view, that as you say and seem to think (adamant)
that members won

[Nick D]

what a narrow minded & arrogant response Chewy!

Totally agree Pete, used to have a restaurant madras from a place that closed around 20 years ago they only had a hand full of dishes on the menu the madras and vinderloo were incredible the sauce was runnier than modern style and golden brown in colour not bright red! the chicken was off the bone (not breast)
Would really like to recreate the Madras of that era.

I have also seen spiced oil in the fridge in a restaurant kitchen destined for the gravy.
There is a definite difference between a home cooked and a restaurant base gravy sample.