Quote from: Cory Ander on September 01, 2012, 04:48 AM
Why you would go off, at cocked hat, and describe your experiment with a significantly adulterated (and completely different) Patak commercial curry sauce, I do not know.  Totally irrelevant, in my opinion.

Of course it is irrelevant, CA : it is in a different thread ("Product review : Patak's tinned (concentrated) Vindaloo sauce"); why should it be relevant to the discussion in this thread ?

And, contrary to your beliefs, I did not go off at half cock [1]  at all -- I took the trouble to review the product because the slagging-off to which "Impecunious of the Wyre" was subjected when he had the temerity to advocate the product (and defend his advocacy) in his very first posts to the forum.

** Phil.
--------
[1] Presumably this was what you meant, mentally confusing "Going off at half cock" with "Talking out of your cocked hat"

Quote from: vinders on September 01, 2012, 09:15 AM
This had undoubtedly been raised or perhaps discussed and rejected for very good reasons so bear with my newbie ideas, but perhaps a what is needed is a CRO sponsored competition for old-school curry chefs to see if they can still reproduce 'the taste', and even better divulge some of their secrets before the legacy of their trade disappears... This would provide us with answers whilst also calling public attention to the change (for the worst) in BIR.  Just an idea...

Nice idea, Vinders, but I doubt the CR) has the financial resources to sponsor such an event.  It is hard enough for Stew to extract the odd GBP 100 from us when he needs to buy further network resources !  What we /might/ do (particularly if anyone has contacts in television) is to suggest the idea to some TV producers : it would have almost everything that modern-day television seems to require : emphasis on food, central roles for members of an ethnic minority, competition -- all that is lacking is the ousting of one chef a week until only one remains !

** Phil.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 10:29 AM
Of course it is irrelevant, CA : it is in a different thread ("Product review : Patak's tinned (concentrated) Vindaloo sauce"); why should it be relevant to the discussion in this thread ?

Uh, because you related (and seemingly confused) the two topics, in both threads, Phil?  :

e.g. In your (which was the) first post in that thread, you wrote:

Quote from: PhilTo address Cory Ander's and  Secret Santa's criticisms, let me repeat them here and then address them one by one

And you go on, in a similar vein, and on, and.... :

It seems we both agree, then, that you relating comments made in this thread, to that thread, was totally irrelevant!   

In that thread, you then went on to quote me as saying something in this thread (which I did) and then related it to Patak vindaloo sauce (in your other thread) claiming that I was "two thirds wrong".  Which was totally irrelevant to that thread!  So who's confused, Phil, really?  :

And you (rather confusingly, it seems to me) come out with your previous "trollish" comments (hoping to solicit an emotive response, it seems to me), in this thread, about me being one of the two "fiercest critics of pre-made pastes"....which is total b*llocks (as I have already explained above)!

QuoteAnd, contrary to your beliefs, I did not go off at half cock [1]  at all

Yes you did.  You tried, it seemed to me, to be overly clever (acting like a typical troll, in my opinion, trying to solicit emotive responses, as you are still trying to do here) and tried to prove your very poor point (about how useful Patak pastes are) , in a totally irrelevant way (i.e. irrelevant to the points that were made about Patak pastes in this thread) on another thread!

Perhaps we can focus on the topic of this thread (rather than continuing to argue the toss about the virtues, or not, of Patak pastes)....

....why do the BIRs, in Haldi's area, no longer produce curries with "the taste"?

Perhaps you have something useful to contribute to that debate Phil (rather than angst)? 

Quote from: Cory Ander on September 01, 2012, 11:43 AM
Uh, because you related (and seemingly confused) the two topics, in both threads, Phil?  :

Threads don't exist in isolation, CA : they are all part of one great Universe of Discourse, and when something written in one thread impinges on discussion in another, it would be perverse (or foolish) to pretend that it does not exist.

QuoteIt seems we both agree, then, that you relating comments made in this thread, to that thread, was totally irrelevant!   

No, the specific message to which you referred (the initial message entitled "Product Review : ...") was irrelevant to this thread, which is why it started a thread of its own; but later discussion in each thread had some relevance to the discussion in the other.

QuoteIn that thread, you then went on to quote me as saying something in this thread (which I did) and then related it to Patak vindaloo sauce (in your other thread) claiming that I was "two thirds wrong".  Which was totally irrelevant to that thread!  So who's confused, Phil, really?  :

You are.  You made this assertion "Patak take spices (let's give them the benefit of the doubt here) and reconstituted ingredients and then add antioxidants, stabilisers, preservatives, acidity regulators, salt, bulking agents, etc," and I pointed out that, in the case of their concentrated curry sauce at least, 2/3 of these alleged ingredients were absent, and that the only one to which one could legitimately take exception was the bulking agent.

QuoteAnd you (rather confusingly, it seems to me) come out with your previous "trollish" comments (hoping to solicit an emotive response, it seems to me), in this thread, about me being one of the two "fiercest critics of pre-made pastes"....which is total b*llocks (as I have already explained above)!

As Secret Santa had the intelligence to appreciate, that remark was made as a joke.

QuotePerhaps we can focus on the topic of this thread (rather than continuing to argue the toss about the virtues, or not, of Patak pastes)....

Since, in your initial post in this thread, you agreed that the adoption of commercial 's paste was, at least in part, to blame :

Quote from: Cory Ander on August 27, 2012, 12:38 PM

Quote from: Secret Santa on August 26, 2012, 10:56 PM
.....Patak's pastes, the very reason why the old style (and infinitely superior) curries are disappearing...

I agree.  The (more recent) use of commercial pastes is an obvious difference between "old style" BIR curries and "new style" BIR curries.

it ill behoves you to now try to prevent others from commenting on that assertion : you made the observation, and others have the right to reply.  No-one is acting as a troll, but sometimes it is necessary to play devil's advocate in order to ensure that the received wisdom is not just blindly accepted as a fact.

** Phil.

Quote from: PhilOf course it is irrelevant, CA : it is in a different thread ("Product review : Patak's tinned (concentrated) Vindaloo sauce"); why should it be relevant to the discussion in this thread ?

Quote from: Phil
Threads don't exist in isolation, CA : they are all part of one great Universe of Discourse, and when something written in one thread impinges on discussion in another, it would be perverse (or foolish) to pretend that it does not exist

Hmmm, and now I expect everyone else is also as confused as you seem to be about your own posts Phil 

Quote from: CAPerhaps we can focus on the topic of this thread (rather than continuing to argue the toss about the virtues, or not, of Patak pastes)..

Quote from: Cory Ander on September 01, 2012, 12:19 PM

Quote from: PhilOf course it is irrelevant, CA : it is in a different thread ("Product review : Patak's tinned (concentrated) Vindaloo sauce"); why should it be relevant to the discussion in this thread ?

Quote from: Phil
Threads don't exist in isolation, CA : they are all part of one great Universe of Discourse, and when something written in one thread impinges on discussion in another, it would be perverse (or foolish) to pretend that it does not exist

Hmmm, and now I expect everyone else is also as confused as you seem to be about your own posts Phil  #

Did you somehow manage to overlook this part, CA ?  It addresses the very point that you are (laboriously, and seemingly interminably) seeking to make.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 12:14 PM
the specific message to which you referred (the initial message entitled "Product Review : ...") was irrelevant to this thread, which is why it started a thread of its own; but later discussion in each thread had some relevance to the discussion in the other.

Quote from: CAPerhaps we can focus on the topic of this thread (rather than continuing to argue the toss about the virtues, or not, of Patak pastes)..

"Physician, heal thyself".

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 01:46 PM
Did you somehow manage to overlook this part, CA ?  It addresses the very point that you are (laboriously, and seemingly interminably) seeking to make.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 12:14 PM
the specific message to which you referred (the initial message entitled "Product Review : ...") was irrelevant to this thread, which is why it started a thread of its own; but later discussion in each thread had some relevance to the discussion in the other.

No, I didn't miss it, but I thought it to be absolute twaddle and contradictory (again).

Your twaddle about "but later discussion in each thread had some relevance to the discussion" is just that; twaddle.  I therefore treated it with the contempt it deserved (by ignoring it....as I will (probably) do with your future replies on the matter).

All the "later discussion" happened, by you, in your very first post of your thread where you rather stupidly combined unrelated comments, from elsewhere, and took them totally out of context!

And now you're stupid enough to try and defend it... :

Quote from: Cory Ander on September 01, 2012, 02:14 PM
I therefore treated with the contempt it deserved (by ignoring it....as I will (probably) do with your future replies on the matter).

Splendid news : I am sure that the other members of the forum will be greatly relieved to read that.

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 02:20 PM
Splendid news : I am sure that the other members of the forum will be greatly relieved to read that.

PS:  Where is your Madras recipe, that you promised me, please?  I really would love to try it (even if it does include Patak paste) 

Quote from: Cory Ander on September 01, 2012, 02:23 PM

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on September 01, 2012, 02:20 PM
Splendid news : I am sure that the other members of the forum will be greatly relieved to read that.

PS:  Where is your Madras recipe, that you promised me, please?  I really would love to try it (even if it does include Patak paste) 

Not yet re-tested : this week I have been cooking mainly Chinese food (Chicken with chilli & black bean sauce, chicken with Chinese mushrooms in oyster sauce, ...) and tomorrow is scheduled to be English lamb steaks.  Once I get a chance to make another Chicken Madras I will be sure to document it.  And yes, of course it will almost certainly contain Patak's Kashmiri Masala paste, as a part of the preparation of the stage-1 chicken : Patak's pastes may, in general, contribute negatively to the BIR experience, but their Kashmiri Masala paste is another matter altogether (IMHO, of course).

** Phil.