Topic: Death of the Taste

[Derek Dansak]

Hi phil , good to hear that ! 

Rye has a new bir , which is pretty good , up the main  high street

if i am driving thru , a takeaway usually suddenly appears in my car !   from where i do not know   

Each time it grows in size 

[Peripatetic Phil]

http://www.simtom.co.uk/

Some time ago I rang them to find where I could buy the products.  Couldnt find any in Birmingham anywhere.  Turns out you have to be a trader to get their pastes etc,

That may be about to change : the Madras Sauce page says "FOR SALE ONLINE SOON".  But it also says some other (and rather questionable) things, such as "Water separates and may settle at the top" (surely that would be the oil : oil /floats/ on water) and "Once opened this product can be kept for up to 3 days in the fridge" (3 days ? Crikey, I keep raw sausages 5 times longer than that !).

** Phil.

[Salvador Dhali]

Online shop seems to be up and running:

http://www.simtom.co.uk/category/online-shop

I might try one or two of their pickles/chutneys and maybe a chilli sauce or two....

[Peripatetic Phil]

Online shop seems to be up and running:

So it is (pity they didn't pre-scale the images).  So I vote that Secret Santa and Cory Ander, as the fiercest critics of pre-made curry pastes, be volunteered to try these and publish their findings

** Phil.

[Kashmiri Bob]

I think I'll just stick to the chutneys.  Just checked and its the Tandoori BBQ marinade I've got.  It's pretty thick stuff.   Ingredients and info:

Water
Garlic (19 %)
Coriander (5 %)
Cumin, Salt, Ginger
Acidity Regulator (sodium diacetate)
Food Acid (Citric)
Rusk (Wheat Flour, Salt, Raising agent (ammonium bicarbonate)
Turmeric, Tamarind (1 %), Chilli, Food Acid (Citric),
Colours: E120, E122. Vegetable Oil, Preservative: Sodium Metabisulphite.

Allergen Advice: Contains Wheat and Sulphites
E122 may have an adverse effect on activity and attention in children

Water separates and may settle at the top, please stir well before use. Once opened store in a cool dry place away from direct sunlight.  Use within 6 months after opening.

On the chutney front I found the Lime & Chilli the best, with Papaya and Lime a close second (found some whole green cardamoms in this one that were very nice indeedy).  The good lady liked the Onion chutney but I didnt.  The Pineapple chutney was disappointing.  I think they were all ?1.30 or ?1.40 each from Lidl, possibly less.  Quite tempted by the Bombay Blush Mango Chutney.  Sounds nice anyway.

Rob

[Secret Santa]

Out of interest, do members have the impression that this change has affected all curries across the board, or have some e.g. the biryani remained relatively unadulterated?

I think that biryanies are now frequently simplified.  Whereas I have (once) seen a biryani served decorated with gold leaf (the Agra, Whitfield Street, London) and usually decorated with sliced egg, sliced tomato and sliced cucumber, these days all I seem to get is a mixture of rice and meat, sometimes with the odd sultana which I don't really want ...

** Phil.

That's how I remember Biryanis, always some saltanas and cashews and topped with sliced boiled egg, cucumber and tomato and with a sublime mild spicing and coconut flavour. The taste of these was a world apart from the basic fried-up pilau that now constitutes a Biryani (don't make me laugh!). It's just another delectable dish that has fallen foul of price cutting and sub-standard chefs (actually these people aren't chefs at all).

[Secret Santa]

Online shop seems to be up and running:

So it is (pity they didn't pre-scale the images).  So I vote that Secret Santa and Cory Ander, as the fiercest critics of pre-made curry pastes, be volunteered to try these and publish their findings

** Phil.

I know you're only joking Phil (you are aren't you?  ) but I really am vehemently opposed to the use of any pastes because I know they have played a huge part in killing the best food Britain had, i.e. the old style BIR curry.

They've started to make more appearances on this forum, undoubtedly because some of the recent books have started to incorporate them after the authors see them being used in modern BIRs. You can keep the pastes and those books!

[Cory Ander]

Secret Santa and Cory Ander, as the fiercest critics of pre-made curry pastes

Listen up, Phil, I never said that at all! 

The debate about Patak pastes (and commercially produced curry pastes, in general) arose because Haldi asked why he is unable to buy BIR curries with the "taste" anymore.

Secret Santa suggested it was possibly due to the more prevalent use of Patak pastes, compared with BIR curries of the 70s and 80s.  I agreed that it is a distinct possibility (and highly probable). 

Admittedly, Haldi said it was a "sudden change", which may or may not preclude the more recent, and more prevalent, use of Patak pastes (or other commercially available pastes).  There may be many other reasons, of course.

Why you would go off, at cocked hat, and describe your experiment with a significantly adulterated (and completely different) Patak commercial curry sauce, I do not know.  Totally irrelevant, in my opinion.  And. as stated before, I tried these Patak sauces decades ago.  Incidentally, perhaps you should have sent the resultant curry, to Haldi, to deduce if it was the "taste" that is now missing from his BIR curries!   :

Having said all that, I regularly (and judiciously) use commercial curry pastes (including Pataks....though I prefer Ferns and Ahmeds) in my curries.  And I do find they can "add a little something".  But they also "add a little something" distinct and undesirable (as previously described and for the reasons cited). 

Nevertheless, the "little something" that they "add" bears little resemblance to those decent BIR curries of yesteryear (or how they were then made), in my opinion.  And I stick by that.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Reckon I?ll start quizzing the guys at a TA I know on their knowledge of ye olde BIR curry.  The main chef there looks deceptively young, but I'll bet he is in his 60s.

[vinders]

This had undoubtedly been raised or perhaps discussed and rejected for very good reasons so bear with my newbie ideas, but perhaps a what is needed is a CRO sponsored competition for old-school curry chefs to see if they can still reproduce 'the taste', and even better divulge some of their secrets before the legacy of their trade disappears... This would provide us with answers whilst also calling public attention to the change (for the worst) in BIR.

Just an idea...