SnS - Interesting thoughts and useful info.


(I did notice your final Madras appeared a bit dry - I sometimes also like it like that). This is specifically mentioned in the recipe as it is important.

>>> I thought I'd try it without adding extra base or water. I too sometimes like it that way. It was more an observation than anything else.

The cooking time of 10 minutes allows the spices to mix and blend and allows the fine onions, garlic and ginger to 'dissolve'

>>> Is that a general rule that you use for all curries? I usually just leave it on long enough to warm through the meat.

Adding more of the original watery 'Saffron base' would make the curry thinner and more fluid. Adding a thicker version of the Saffron base (or other) will also require addition of water (which counteracts the creation of a thicker base for purpose of taste in the first place).

>>> Even with the extra cooking time, the modified base was still very fluid. More comments on the long-cook Saffron below.

There is a very fine line between a 'tasty curry soup' and a 'versatile curry base', and in my opinion (for what its worth), if the base tastes really nice (almost a curry sauce), then it is too rich and is not suitable as an 'all round' curry base.

>>> I came to a different conclusion than Jerry on the 'modified' Saffron base. To me, the taste is mostly the same (not necessarily sweeter or richer). The benefit that I drew from the experience was that the added cooking time released much more oil. You can see the first pic in the post above how much I got out. The base itself is just as fluid as the standard recipe, and the yield was not noticably less than usual. I need to try it with a few more curries to have a more definite opinion though.

The lemon juice can be added, but I guess that is personal preference and borders on turning a Madras into a sweet and sour affair (pathia style).

>>> Most of the Madras I've had at BIRs - the good ones anyway - I'd always notice the hint of lemon juice. To me, its one of the things that says "this is Madras", not a plain curry, Vindaloo, etc. But yes, it is a personal preference issue.

Thanks for the input.

-- Josh

At the end of the day I hope it was worth the test.

Thanks so much for your input (we'll get those 'quote' things sorted soon -eh).

Logging off

SnS 

Quote from: joshallen2k on May 26, 2008, 02:45 AM
SnS - Interesting thoughts and useful info.

I have to say, that looks a little too dark for my liking! It looks like something got burnt there!

wow! josh you don't do things by halves. fabulous post.

it must have been SnS madras night last night as i too had a go - not a patch on your efforts - really impressed.

you & SnS in the last few posts have pretty much covered my thoughts.

have eaten this madras in restaurants and it is clearly a top notch curry.

very much gelled with the technique - i feel it's essential for all to have a go at just for the learning and understanding gained.

the new post on how to get finely chopped onions is very well timed - i tried to get them as fine as i could but felt i would have liked them finer (as SnS says - to blend in more).

there are a few personal taste bud changes that i would need to make coming from the type of BIR curries i've been brought up on:
a) my fav curries need to be tomatoey - (2 tbsp of tom puree instead of 1 tsp)
b) i've come to the conclusion that methi is not for me - (i would replace the spice mix with LB)
c) there is slightly too much spice ? (I would reduce from 2.75 tsp to 2 tsp per 200ml serving)

would i in future cook fast/high temp (as i do currently) or slow/medium. i would probably have to say i'll stay as is as i tend to cook several individual curries over a meal time with each taking say 10mins to cook. by using the slow technique the cooking time would effectively double.

for sure the slow technique does produce really sweet onions and it's a real breeze to do the cooking unlike the hot approach (i was actually cooking something else at the same time). for most recipes having now tasted the sweetness i have realised that i did not need it and so for most recipes will stick as i am.

this is a really good learning post and a big thanks to SnS for creating the opportunity

Joshallen2k,

missed a bit off my last post.

1st - your tub of oil looks as impressive as mine (well pleased u too got there). It?s quite frightening to start with as the extra oil seems to initially ruin the taste of the base and it only improves as the oil is reclaimed.

2nd - in terms of the saffron extended cooking - mine too did not change in sweetness or become richer. it's difficult to explain in words. the colour at the end of cooking in the past has been sort of yellowy'ish. at the end of the extended cooking it looks just like yours - darker/redder. it's still tastes like a saffron base but i guess the only way to describe it is smoother, hence the moorish taste.

given my latest experiences with spice mix (kushi - for stews jalfrezi and SnS for the madras and previously with some of Chris303's) i going to work on spice mix matching to recipe for a while to increase my knowledge. this is prompted by how well the kushi works for jalfrezi but how the LB which i use normally is no good for jalfrezi (i tried it) and how different the SnS restaurant mix is.

Many years ago I watched a curry-house chef knock-up a Madras for me (it may have been a Vindaloo though, I can't quite remember).  This was in the Gatwick Tandoori, Ifield Crawley, now called the 'Zari'.

He did not use any chopped onion, garlic, ginger or tomarto puree.  I would think that chopped onion would be essential in something like a Bhuna, and probably also the garlic, ginger and tomarto puree, if there is not enough in the oringinal base.  I would not have thought it necessary in a madras, but then I haven't tried it so who knows!

I do remember he included a 'shake' (and no more) of Lee & Perrins Worchester sauce.  Before he started cooking, he selected a frying pan and swirled it round with just a little oil.  I remember being suprised at this because the finished dish was quite oily.  This leads me to suspect that in that esatablishment at least, they never bothered to reclaim oil from the finished base, the extra oil present at the end having come from the base itself.

My method is based on his, plus certain additions I've learnt from else where (including this site!).  This feeds 2 hungery adults:

I heat 3tbs oil, fry a chopped chillie, and sometimes a small pinch dried curry leaves (not typically used in BIR as far as I can see), when the seeds from the chillie start to darken I add one ladle of base (my bases fall into the thin soup type catagory) and immediately add spices: 4 lev tps Bruce Edwards 'type 2 ' spice mix (his later type containing some commerical 'curry-powder'); 1/4 lev tps pre ground dried methi leaf (I grind a whole box full after I buy it in a spice grinder); 1/2 lev tps salt; 1 lev tps brown sugar; and chillie podwer to taste.

The intial ladle of base acts like making up a paste with the spices and water, it keeps the temperature from climbing TOO fast and burniung the spices.  This is something the chef did when I watched him.  I cook on high heat for about a minute 'till I get the 'toffee' smell, then add the chicken (I don't bother to pre-cook this as it only takes 10 mins to cook from fresh), I cook for a minute or to, then add the rest of the base (I use 400ml in total), I also add 1/4 tps Worchester Sauce and 3 or 4 tbs of the juice from a tin of plum tomartos, or  the tomartos blended with their juice.  I find this gives a curry-house style sourness, much more BIR-like than lemon juice / lime juice / tamarind puree or vinegar, all of which I've tried at some stage!  I cook for ten mins or so 'till the oil floats, and the pan contents have reduced to the correct consistancy, then add chopped corriander and serve!

Gona have it tonight actually!

I will be posting a new base recipe shortly (using Saffron ingredients but completely different method), together with a Madras recipe which does not use chopped onion. Both recipes are 'under test' at the moment (Bobby Bhuna) but I hope to post this weekend.

Watch this space ....

SnS