Topic: Death of the Taste

[vinders]

Many thanks for the warm welcome Phil and Axe.

It would be a great shame if the chef's legacy went to waste. What an excellent opportunity to learn from what must be one of the few remaining chefs of that generation.

[Malc.]

I fear i'm not cut out for such a task Phil, I love cooking but professionally, i'm not so sure. But thanks for the vote of confidence. 


Vinners, I hold myself fortunate having experienced the demo, it was overwhelming. I was like a school boy in a sweet shop! My experiences pale in significance to others on this forum though. But every little helps as they say. 

[Aussie Mick]

As far as I can see, pastes are now being used as a matter of conveinience, but more importantly, as a matter of speed.

If, say you're average takeaway can only put out 300 curries on a busy night by preparing curries in the "old" way, but by adding a spoonfull of this or that they can then get out 500 curries, well, it's a simple matter of economics. They are well aware that with other added ingredients, it is still a tasty option for the "average" punter, who is either too ignorant/lazy to cook his/her own, or who doesn't have the inclination to do so.

If the premises are paying HUGE rents, and they can increase turnover in this way, then it is an easy way out, and the newer generations have accepted the taste and are happy to pay for it.

Nostalgia aside, the curry's of the 70's and 80's WERE so much tastier........END OF STORY. It is isn't just fond memories, they were gorgeous.

As for pastes in tikka/seekh...well i don't know. I rememeber having seekh kebabs down Wilmslow Rd in the 80's and they tasted absolutely divine. However, at the local curry houses in Manchester's outskirts, they were obviously made with pastes. (I didn't know this at the time, but since discovering CR0, I do know the difference in taste now) 

Seeing as I left UK in '96, I cannot comment on recent takeaway/restaurant curries, apart from trips back home , where I have sampled curries that are OK, to others that were sublime. Even the OK ones knocked the spots off you're average OZ/NZ piss weak watery shite.

[naga dave]

Indian Restauranteur : What the Brits want is food that looks good, has an interesting name, and dosen't taste of anything.
    Yes, a local restaurant owner said this to me.
    Anyway, the change came to East Anglia around 2005  / 2006. Within two years the old style Curry Houses had all gone, replaced by what I think of as Modern Indian Restaurants. [ MIR's  ? ] All light and airy, no flock wallpaper, but more significantly, none of the old familiar smells. New 'modernised' menus appeared, some places even dropping the old favourites, the Madrasses and vindaloos. They would make them if you asked, but they now tended to be meat with a little chilli and some watery gravy, no attempt being made to make a sauce. And everything BLAND. The more trendy places started experimenting with Indo-French/Italian fusion cookery - Spagetti Bombay, Pasta Madras. Worst of all, English game cookery. They seemed ashamed of their origins, adopting names like La Ristorante Indienne, Labone, etc.
                 Sorry folks, I think the party's over. It's all down to DIY now. If it hasn't reached you yet, it soon will.
                                                                       D.

[Peripatetic Phil]

DEE-pressing ...

[Malc.]

Indian Restauranteur : What the Brits want is food that looks good, has an interesting name, and dosen't taste of anything.

Hi D,

Interesting comment, i've had similar from the Shanaz and your following post is reminiscent of what used to be my favourite local BIR.

Sri India as it's now called was once a single store fronted Indian restaurant typical in it's decor. The staff were welcoming and friendly and the food was produced to good standards. It wasn't quite IG but still very good and I was happy to order from them week after week. Then one day it simply closed it's doors.

The original staff I had found working in various other outlets as we had been forced to find a new TA. We later found out that the owners had closed it to build a 'new' restaurant. What they actually did was by the property next door and then knock the two into one. They spent alot of money turning what was a warm and inviting little restaurant into a huge open air modern affair with glittered marble floors and blue under lighting, they eve n had an open view kitchen. Thing was, it took them over 18 months to do this, so we had all but given up on them and found alternatives, or rather had given up on local curry. Good job I found this forum!

Anyway, the place finally opened as the Sri India and to their credit, looked pretty good despite the massive character change. However, along with the face change also came a menu change and a new chef, shipped all the way from the mother land. Everything had changed, prices had gone up, portions had shrunk and specialty dishes, flooded the menu. We gave the restaurant our best shot and ordered 4 or 5 times, but every time, had been disappointed one way or another. And to make matters worse, the open kitchen set-up allowed me to see that on my last order, my main was taken from a fridge and microwaved!

Needless to say, we have never returned and are very unlikely to. 

[SteveAUS]

[/quote]

And to make matters worse, the open kitchen set-up allowed me to see that on my last order, my main was taken from a fridge and microwaved!

[/quote]

Thats terrible. I would've got up, paid for what you may have had for an entree and given an explanation for your departure.

[Kashmiri Bob]

My first TA was from a place called Naffees in Leeds circa 1982 I think.  There werent the names of curries were accustomed to now either.  So typically I would order mince and spinach, with a chapatti. I recall the food as being really good, but the trouble is I would have been comparing then with my mums curry attempts, which were heavy on the sultanas.  I do remember more clearly though the curries of Wilmslow Road from the late 80s to the mid-90s.  Some were truly amazing, some not so great, and many of the restaurants were inconsistent at best.  When I found the Dharbar it was the banker for a long time.  One of the young waiters there (Wasseem) would always remind us that, "this place is the best on strip", it was imo, but eventually that also went downhill.  I can?t remember when exactly but the turning point did coincide with more and more restaurants popping up next to each other.  The prices went up and the portion sizes reduced.  The curries were missing something it seemed. The standard of service dropped. And to cap it off, garlic salt on the naans!  I gave up going and started eating pasta. 

Perhaps part of the problem was adding the pastes and I didnt realize it then.  On discovering BIR cooking myself about a year ago I was quite surprised to see Pataks pastes being suggested as a way to lift a curry to another level.  I kept thinking, surely, ?supermarket level?.  Did try the usual 3 recommended but Im afraid they have now all gone in the bin.  So I would agree pretty much with Secret Santa, it has no place in my curry at the moment.  I dont really bother with CTM; made a few early on for the good lady, who said they were pretty good, ?like a takeaway?.  But have since made her 976bars Chicken Pasanda and she has been much more complementary; ?This is restaurant food?, ?The best curry I?ve ever had?, etc.  So it looks like the CTM has had its day in our house. However, I still regularly make a lot of chicken tikka.  I sometimes add a small amount of Simtom Tandoori paste to the marinade, but wouldnt panic if Id forgotten to put it in.  What I find odd about Pataks pastes is that basically all of the Asian shops and supermarkets seem to pack their shelves with it (Sparkhill for example), both the standard size jars and the trade size tubs.  Yet, during all my visits over the past 12 months, when queuing for the checkout, I have never seen anyone buy a single jar/tub.

Rob

Ps. If anyone like me is new to BIR cooking and someone in your house likes the sweet creamy dishes, do check this one out.  Its a cracker.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8175.0

[DalPuri]

I know of two restaurants round my way that recently saw business plummet after their chefs were poached. The food went from stunning to bland literally overnight.

Of the five restaurants owned by the above mentioned wholesaler, I only bother with a couple of them. Why? because those have the best chefs.

Anyway, that's my take on it. It's not anything to do with pastes, but chefs. Always has been, and always will be...

Too true SD.
When i was a kid, me old man and his circle of friends would always follow the chefs when we heard that one of our favourites had been poached.(quite commonplace) Thankfully, it was never too far away.

One thing thats always crossed my mind when i watch a video of a chef in a kitchen or see a recipe posted here from a BIR/TA chef is,
Maybe they're not that great a chef in the first place.

[SteveAUS]

Perhaps part of the problem was adding the pastes and I didnt realize it then.  On discovering BIR cooking myself about a year ago I was quite surprised to see Pataks pastes being suggested as a way to lift a curry to another level.  I kept thinking, surely, ?supermarket level?.  Did try the usual 3 recommended but Im afraid they have now all gone in the bin.  So I would agree pretty much with Secret Santa, it has no place in my curry at the moment.  I dont really bother with CTM; made a few early on for the good lady, who said they were pretty good, ?like a takeaway?.  But have since made her 976bars Chicken Pasanda and she has been much more complementary; ?This is restaurant food?, ?The best curry I?ve ever had?, etc.  So it looks like the CTM has had its day in our house. However, I still regularly make a lot of chicken tikka.  I sometimes add a small amount of Simtom Tandoori paste to the marinade, but wouldnt panic if Id forgotten to put it in.  What I find odd about Pataks pastes is that basically all of the Asian shops and supermarkets seem to pack their shelves with it (Sparkhill for example), both the standard size jars and the trade size tubs.  Yet, during all my visits over the past 12 months, when queuing for the checkout, I have never seen anyone buy a single jar/tub.

Rob

Ps. If anyone like me is new to BIR cooking and someone in your house likes the sweet creamy dishes, do check this one out.  Its a cracker.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8175.0

You're not the only to be surprised to find Pataks being quite a large influence of late. Ive only been here a short while and have since bought a jar of pataks tandoori paste to make Blades chicken tikka. Ive been after the perfect tikka for years. Though im wondering why cant I just use some tamarind instead as apparently thats the only reason he used it. Im very very happy with the result. Not sure thought whether its the use of the pataks or the non use of yoghurt in the marinade. Thats as far as I'll go though. Ive been cooking traditional indian for years because of my distaste for curries in a jar and I just couldnt bring myself to use it in a main. Ive also noticed 976s pasanda and its on my list to do for my wife. It is very similar to the butter chicken dishes down here. All makes for very good reading seeing the fors and againsts.
Cheers
Steve