Topic: What do we know about oil in BIR's

[emin-j]

ELW, many of the forum members can no doubt produce wonderful looking and tasting curry's but probably most would also agree there is still that missing ' something '. As George recently found the oil that remained on the paper carrier he had from his takeaway had this ' something ' which is in the form of an aroma and a certain flavour that is difficult to describe and despite all my efforts using different recipes for base gravy,spice mix,etc and different technique as in high heat,low heat that certain ' something ' is still missing 
The aroma from my Bhaji oil had that ' something ' and I had dismissed Bhaji oil due to a poor attempt on my part some time ago,this oil is the only product that gets very close to that missing elusive BIR aroma.
With the amount of Bhajis etc BIR's fry in their oil it must have a very intense flavour and maybe just a ladle or two in a base gravy is all it takes  I wish someone could prove otherwise as I am not overkeen on using recycled oil but Bhaji oil seems favourite to me at the moment.   

[gazman1976]

i was recently in my kebab shop which does curries, kebabs, pakora, i get my normal at lunchtime - spicy chicken and chips, they basically cook the chicken in base gravy, add the usual suspects and then - ADD SPECIAL OIL , i have noticed this loads of times now and it gives the amazing flavour -

maybe this thread should be followed up further?

[George]

maybe this thread should be followed up further?

Abdul - are you or anyone else who works in a BIRreading this? Can you help us with the answer to where the aroma under discussion comes from?

[bamble1976]

Hi

There may be a chance that reclaimed oil adds something to a curry but i am not a believer.

It CANNOT be the missing ingredient because as we have seen from micks videos, chewy videos, etc the restaurants they use do not use reclaimed oil.  Other takeaways may use it but as there are some who do, some who don't, both producing very good curries I assume (from micks feedback), then this cannot be the missing ingredient.  Possibly only an improvement for some people which may be what their t/a uses!

Regards

Barry

[alarmist10]

I completely agree with you on this one Barry and for the reasons you state.

Also, last night I achieved one of those 'moments' we all hope to experience.  After more than 25 years trying to replicate the taste of a mushroom bhaji from what was then my local T/A in Sunderland from the 1980s, I finally made it.  In smell, taste, and texture it was precisely what I've been trying through so many false dawns to accomplish......and it was all done with fresh veg. oil, no fancy additions.

My feeling is that the Zeera group found the 'missing link' for us in the technique they observed.  Certainly the flavour of all my curry attempts has improved substantially as a result.   

al.

[jb]

Hi

There may be a chance that reclaimed oil adds something to a curry but i am not a believer.

It CANNOT be the missing ingredient because as we have seen from micks videos, chewy videos, etc the restaurants they use do not use reclaimed oil.  Other takeaways may use it but as there are some who do, some who don't, both producing very good curries I assume (from micks feedback), then this cannot be the missing ingredient.  Possibly only an improvement for some people which may be what their t/a uses!

Regards

Barry

That is why I thought CBM's video of a chef from the Little India making a base gravy from scratch was so important in answering this debate.Finally we can clearly see a chef who doesn't use recalimed oil,and least not in his base,and as Mick confirms the place does top notch food.

[solarsplace]

Hi

Have been thinking about this issue and just though I would type out some ideas and thoughts...

Paper bag smell as mentioned here (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8269.msg73813#msg73813) - I have to agree, when we get a TA from the local, the poppadoms come in a brown paper bag and the bag smells great. I agree it is odd to stand there sniffing paper bags, but there you go....

I have a big dedicated bhaji and poppadom frying pot which since its last change of oil has now had around 50 or so combination Rajah and TRS poppadoms cooked in it and no bhajis so far. When the poppadoms are cooked and stood in the toast rack to drain, they smell identical to the aroma from the TA paper bag and the TA's poppadoms.

What does this conclude so far? - not a lot - however when I cook a curry I generally make several poppadoms too to accompany the curry. The combination of these two goes a long way to satisfying all the aroma senses that one would expect from a BIR style curry. Obviously it cannot be just like the TA because they are making many other dishes too. But the key aroma is there.

This basically leads me to mull over at least the following:

I don't really detect or taste any different oil background in the curry from the BIR's and TA's I have been to in the local area (Fleet, Farnham area) in recent times. But when I open the TA bag it has the aroma we are all talking about, and generally expecially strong when there are some poppadom and or some bhajis in there too. Is that aroma actually in the main curry such as the madras? - tipping it out onto a plate by itself and isolating it from all the other stuff it appears to loose the aroma.

Is there any reasons such as hygiene laws, new or recent or have always been that would prohibit the re-use of fryer oil in another food product that would be subsequently prepared or sold such as a base gravy?. Such that at one time it would have been wide spread practice but now only a few places do so out of habit, cost cutting, or just because that is the way their chef does and has always done things?

What if there was no re-used oil added to the base or the the final dish and in fact there is actually only the aroma of the fryer oil impregnated into all the TA packaging? - after all, the fryers must be on every night all night producing huge amounts of oil vapour into the whole of the kitchen, some of it must seep into every surface, pot and pan.

But we do know however that the occasional TA does use fryer oil such as the one that Haldi has asked and seen doing so.

I would suggest it is worth giving our friends the poppadoms a little more credit for the aroma too. Its not just about the bhaji's stealing the aroma show I suspect!

[curryhell]

Russ, i get exactly where you're coming from.  Maybe the little brown bags come pre- impregnated with BIR aroma One thing is for sure, we are all familiar with that smell that comes from that brown bag when we've just taken delivery.
Next time i cook i'll put my empty containers in one of these bags and check it out the next day.  I'll even spill some oil in the bag too   One thing i am aware of is that my used  containers don't smell much different, if at all, from my takeaways, and other than on the two occasions i tried bhaji oil and that from CBM's precooked vegetable dish, I have only ever used fresh oil or veg ghee.

[JerryM]

thanks for the responses. not what i was after but that's not a negative - it's important to close off naff ideas as well as investigate promising

i was after any observations relevant to BIR's and oil.

if you personally are happy using plain or fresh oil then no problem. i am in no doubt that many BIR use it.

i'm still undecided on bhajis oil. not that it does not work but undecided on whether it will produce the quality that i'm after.

i've used reclaimed oil from base for a long time. it's pretty good but not as good as my local TA base oil (by a long distance).

when i saw Mark J's photo a few years ago i just scrolled by. now i have much of my gap sorted the picture or oil has resurfaced so to speak.

i was quite amazed to think that BIR's have so much of the oil that they could box just like curry for TA. i know they must get through some oil but seeing it in a carton puts a different light on it for me.

very simply how do they get the strength and taste range. it must be simple - of all the things i've learnt about BIR it's very clear that nothing is done without reason but nothing is done the hard way.

i have my thoughts but no insight on what happens in a BIR - hence the post.

going forward i intend to test out individual whole spice. the aim to adjust the tgad2007 roasted whole spice "chef garam" that i currently use in base. i also want to prove or not my previous finding of not to use curry powder in base (which for me makes mix powder in base a no no).

i also want to revisit the sort of time issue. i've found in the past that by recycling the reclaimed oil into the next base it possessively gets stronger. the question for me is whether this is the only way of increasing strength or can the amount of spice be simply increased.

the only thing i can offer on the "debate" is that is all down to the strength of what you are using and expectations. if bhajis or whatever has not worked for you then it's very likely that what was used was not up to the spec needed. for example i've only used chip/bhaji oil on 1 off occasion and the effect was far too much.

if you're still undecided on "oil" or "whatever it actually is" just try putting say some mix powder in a small amount of oil and taste it. then try some chef garam and you will soon be hooked - does 3 days storage improve it or is heating the best way. try freezing it as this seems to be the best way of comparative testing. the final pass or fail although some way off being the carrier bag.

the "whatever it actually is" could even be a mix of all contenders (including v.ghee and butter ghee). the only thing important in terms of producing best curry is to get to the point of realising the "whatever it is" is missing.

i think Haldi and CA must have already discovered it's missing. it just had not dawned on me till now - since doing a back to basics using ifindforu's base (which is very good, contains curry powder and uses fresh oil).

not got any answers for a change but well happy.

[bamble1976]

HI

I think the idea of making a curry, popadoms etc into a bag and leave it sitting to see if the smell is the same is a good idea but mentioned anywhere else apart from a curry forum, you would prob be shot

Solarspace - the bag sniffing comment made me chuckle ;D

regards

barry