Topic: What do we know about oil in BIR's

[JerryM]

curryhell,

best wishes sir.

et al,

got the rajver made. the base itself tastes as good as it always does.

on the reclaimed oil

the original recipe produced a dark brown oil which never tasted very good (saffron and mytake being much better).

this time i left out the paprika thinking it would help keep the oil towards yellow. did not work - a sort of orange colour turned out. i know the colour's not the be all and in the past i've thought red is best. so putting the colour to one side the taste is much stronger than the cycle 1 oil (ie the oil reclaimed from base 1.

for this base 2, i added 1 litre fresh oil and 470ml of the cycle 1 yellow oil. i've frozen 900ml for use in base no 3.

i've recycled oil briefly in the past on an adhoc basis and thought 3 off cycles needed to gain maximum taste so this oil is still not fully developed. ie need to recycle into another base (base 3).

conclusions:
1) strength of the oil has increased from cycle 1
2) the taste is not as "vibrant" as base 1
3) the colour is not important

will need to cook before deciding further. my gut feeling is that the chef garam is spot on. i now think the base spicing is more important than i'd thought in terms of getting the best oil.

rajver

[curryhell]

i now think the base spicing is more important than i'd thought in terms of getting the best oil.

That's an awful lot of oil there to use up Jerry ;D  You'll just have to increase your curry intake to clear it all :  Certainly agree with your final comment.  IMHO i think spicing of the base can turn a good gravy into that which delivers that aroma we all love which also subtly comes through in the taste.  I have a couple of ideas around whole spices, stock etc which i'll be following up during the winter months.  Any breakthroughs and i'll report back for sure.

[JerryM]

curryhell,

i think i might have done too much oil this time - even for me - the stove eats it so my finished curries contain very little of it. makes you think why all the fuss about oil.

the final comment has sort of dawned on me since tasting this last batch of oil. CA said it sometime ago (the gap lay in the base) and it's something i've not been able to put out of my mind. although i've tasted real BIR base that produces top notch curry there was very little oil but what there was being really quite special - hence the interest in oil. obviously now not in the whole spice but what ingredients/spice make up the rest of the oil taste. for info i see no difference in the base taste "characteristics" itself.

i'm very happy with the chef garam and see no need for further improvement other than possibly to increase the amount of jalpur. i've also just this week tried upping the mix powder from the very low 0.5 tsp to 1 tsp (where i started out) and can now see this working for some dishes.

my main focus now is on the base spicing/ingredients in order to achieve best. as you say - going to take a few months for sure. best wishes

[curryhell]

You certainly have a lot of it there Jerry.  Whilst i think it has a part to play, i don't think it's a major player like some do.  But it could be one of the many "layers" that make up the BIR flavour and smell.  The base is important and maybe this is where the oil comes in to play and i believe the spicing of the base and the resultant oil is critical.  However, a good base in the hands of someone with poor technique will at best product an average home made curry.  I think it's all about balance.  Then, just to complicate things, ones own expectations come into play.  We all have different ideas on what makes a good madras, vindaloo etc.  I don't think we'll ever agree but at least we will explore the key areas which may enable most of us to achieve what we consider to be a BIR curries cooked at home.  Only time will tell.  Good luck with the base experiments.

[JerryM]

curryhell,

very well put.

it is very fine tuning for sure.

if of help these are the ingredients which were used in base 2 (rajver) but not used in base 1 (mytake):

green pepper, tom puree, cumin, tinned toms, coconut milk

none of these would i have expected to have had such a dramatic downturn on the taste of the oil.

going forward i intend to make ifindforu's base (1/2 batch, the other base in my top 3) using fresh oil only (i've not reclaimed oil from it yet and need to see how it tastes). from this i should be able to compare all the various ingredient combinations to hopefully shed light on why this backward step.

at least i know recycling the oil does increase the strength which was my original objective.

[curryhell]

Interesting results Jerry.  Particularly since the majority of gravies use green pepper, tomato paste or pureed tinned tomatoes or both.  As for cumin (not one of my favourite spices particlarly if i can taste it) and coconut, I'm very hesitant to use either given my results so far without them.  I am loath to try any more bases and intend to stick with my two most popular and do some work with them first and see what turns up.  I eventually do want to try IFFU's base and also the little india base.  I don't see any point in wandering from base to base in search of the panacea of gravies.  All have been tried and received fairly good reports.  But there's been no one report that say "this is the gravy that will deliver the BIR taste and smell".  I believe the gravy is simply a carrier.  It's what you add to the carrier as well as how you cook the final dish with it that will deliver the goods.  Maybe it's about that extra layer or two of flavour that gets the desired result. Just my own opionion and i'm sure many will disagree.

[JerryM]

the green pepper, tin toms (seeds) and cumin are the main contenders for me. i do think as you say the building of layers of flavour is the key to it all. i'm 100% sure i can't add any more flavour upstream of the base even with recipe refinement (unless there is an ingredient i don't use that's important but i doubt very much as some dishes are spot on but it could be as some dishes are not as good as they should be - i'm thinking things that are made ie mushroom bhaji as example).

i now realise i need to vary the amount of mix powder to optimise the amount for each specific dish - the small amount ie 0.5 tsp works for some dishes but not for all.

the oil and base really is fine tuning.

agree very much with what you say. the only ps being make sure you do try coconut at some point - it does work both in block and cream in base. not essential but nice for a change.

[parabolic]

JerryM,

talking about coconut reminds me that I should have you try my recipe for chicken tikka/shashlik marrinade.

I'll post it tonight in the tikka section.  I know you like your tikka and it has coconut in it!, so I want you to try mate and see where you rate it.

Lee

[JerryM]

parabolic,

will look out for it - i do like coconut and always like to keep the blinkers off to try something new.

i do like my tikka and can't see me moving from ifindforu's version (the f.coriander, garden mint and green chilli sauce are a trilogy for me equal to garlic, chilli, ginger) - everyone who i've made it for can't believe how good it is. the lasan is my 2nd fav and not far behind.

cooking it on a bbq albeit gas makes a difference too.

links

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4968.msg48047#msg48047
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4182.0

[JerryM]

on the reclaimed oil - oil cycle No 3

for this base No 3, i added 150 ml fresh oil and 900 ml frozen from cycle 2.

the oil tastes surprisingly good given it had taken a dip from the last base.

the strength is pretty good too. i reclaimed 950 ml and froze 500ml for base No 4 leaving 450 ml for cooking.

the colour has remained dark which i'm beginning to think is down to the jalpur in the chef garam and the fact that i've upped the amount i've historically used (x4 - was 5 ml per 800g onion/9 portions which has increased to 20 ml)

i've given up on trying to work out how to identify what in the rajver was duffing the oil taste. i don't feel the effort will be worth what is in effect very little improvement being sought - ie in short can live with as is.

i feel i'm now ready to try the last 2 off thoughts on improving the oil:
1) citric acid
2) herb - which one is the question though. tarragon caught my eye but never seen it in Asian store. i've previously tried ajowan (ifindforu base) which led me to fennel. i'm thinking a more soft herb like oregano, marjoram or parsley. they all seem to be kept in the Asian stores in large amounts