Topic: Boiling Whole Onion v Chopped Onions

[Razor]

Hi chaps.

So, over recent weeks, it has been debated in various threads, which method of cooking onions, makes for a sweeter base!

The thought by some, myself included, was that boiling onions whole made for a sweeter base.  Others believed that it is the length of time that the onions are boiling for that determines how sweet the base will turn out!

Well tonight, I put both theories to the test using Chewytikka's 3 hour base recipe.

I basically, used 2kg of onions, as per recipe, chopped 1 kg and left 1 kg whole, then divided the rest of the ingredients 50/50.

After 1 hr, I checked how soft the whole onions were by putting a spoon through one, it was very soft and well cooked.  Using the whole onions as the gauge, I then added the tom puree and mixed powder and continued cooking for a further hour.

2 hours in, it was time to turn off both pans.  I let them cool for 15 minutes, and gave each pan a good stir.  Both pans were identical, specifically bought for the task, and both pans were cooked on the medium size rings on the hob (gas)  Now, the pan that contained the chopped onions, had reduced significantly more than the pan with whole onions in?  That was a shock as I somehow expected the complete opposite.  I should add that I had by now, broke down the whole onions to roughly the same size as the chopped onions, with my chef's spoon. I increased the volume of water in the 'chopped onion' pan to bring it to the same consistency as the other pan.

I then blitzed each pan for a good 5 minutes with my stick blender, added 500ml of boiling water to each pan, returned to the hob and simmered each base for a further 30 mins, removing any scum that formed.  Finally, I passed both bases through the sieve, and removed any fibrous matter left behind.

Ok, here's the acid test.

I first tasted the chopped onion base.  Smooth, flavoursome and quite sweet!

I then tasted the whole onion base. Smooth, flavoursome and quite sweet!

This went on for about 2 - 3 minutes.  I concluded that no one base was any sweeter than the other, and infact, both base's were 'BIR' sweet!

I asked the wife to have a taste of each base, (she didn't have a clue which was which or why I'd been out and spent 40 notes on two pans, when I have a massive pot already)

Interestingly, she picked out the 'whole onion' base as being sweeter.  Not convinced by her verdict, because I may have given the game away, I asked her to turn around, and spoon fed her each of the bases.  Again, she picked out the whole onion base as being the sweetest!

So, I still don't know.  In my mind, there was no difference but the wife was very definite in her choice.

Going to cook with both tomorrow night, just a plain chicken curry, and see if I can pick one from the other.

Ray

[curryhell]

So, I still don't know.  In my mind, there was no difference but the wife was very definite in her choice.

Going to cook with both tomorrow night, just a plain chicken curry, and see if I can pick one from the other.

Ray

Now that's what i call dedication to the cause Ray.  I am sure those new pans will get put through their paces time after time though ;D.  Maybe you couldn't taste the difference that the wife picked up on because, as we all know, when you're cooking, the senses tend to be blunted by the cooking process  .  Try it cold tomorrow and see if the difference is more discernable then.  Will be interesting to hear the results of your plain chicken curry cook off though ;D.

[Razor]

Hi CH,

  Maybe you couldn't taste the difference that the wife picked up on because, as we all know, when you're cooking, the senses tend to be blunted by the cooking process  .  Try it cold tomorrow and see if the difference is more discernable then.

That thought had crossed my mind too, and I did spend the whole time in the kitchen while the bases were cooking.  I was preparing rice, chicken tikka, seekh kebab and gg paste.  The senses could have definitely been dulled somewhat!

Don't worry CH, not forgot about the NIS, but I don't think I'll get a true perspective if I try a hot curry for the test.

Ray

[loveitspicy]

Very interesting and a great post - i have done exactly the same and i cannot tell the difference - however i did not have a third party tasting! which might have indicated one way or another
best, Rich

[rockyholland]

I think your wife is messing with your head because you spent 40 quid on more 'curry kit'  ;D

[Razor]

Hi Chaps,

So about 5 minutes ago, I had a taste of each base sauce, cold, as suggested,

Chopped Onion base. Smooth, flavoursome and sweet.

Whole Onion base. Smooth, Flavoursome and sweeter!

Not by a great margin but definitely sweeter and maybe a tad more savoury but I put that down to adding more water to the chopped onion base as per my opening post.

Final test now, is to cook an Identical dish using both bases as I promised last night but, sorry guy's, I'm going to renege on this one, I just fancy a jal frezi tonight.

Ray

[curryhell]

Hi CH,

Don't worry CH, not forgot about the NIS, but I don't think I'll get a true perspective if I try a hot curry for the test.

Ray

Glad to hear you haven't forgotten Ray.   Am looking forward to your feedback.  Scale back the chilli to your taste mate.  It's the overall taste of the dish, not the heat that matters ;D.  Enjoy the jalfrezi.  Thanks for conducting the whole onion vs chopped onion experiment.  To me it makse perfect sense to cook them whole.  Why waste time chopping when the result is the same or maybe even better .  Waiting for your feedback on the finished dish with the two bases.

[daddyL]

Onions and....

I have been in many a BIR kitchen and in the olden days (early 80's for me) the base sauce was always cooked with whole onions, Oh so many chances to ask so many questions wasted in my drunken youth!.
So why would they take the time and trouble to peel an onion leaving it whole?. It seems cutting through the onion starts a chemical reaction that makes them bitter, so that could be the answer.......But I remember my Nan peeling onions in this way, did she know about this chemical reaction or was it because its the way she was shown how to peel them?. I also use whole onions in my base but by FAR the biggest factor that will effect the sweetness is the age of the onion (OK some would say variety but the kitchens I have been in all use standard brown cooking onions usually British) I remember once ordering a Jalfrezi from one of my usual TA's   the manager told  "the the chef apologises if the dish is a little sweeter than normal as he is using NEW SEASON ONIONS and will adjust the spice to compliment the flavour" he said when the new season onions come in they mix them with older onions but on the last delivery both lots of onions were new season.

 And it was very sweet compared to usual.

New season onions are out late August early September.
If you can buy from a farm shop all the better as you will know how old they are.
26% of the world's onions are grown in China!.

Using fresh new season onions that have not been force dried will result in a very sweet base and the difference's in the finished dish is immediately noticeable.

I hope this helps some of you out on the quest, it may not be the final piece of the jigsaw but I think it can be an important factor in creating "the taste".

[Peripatetic Phil]

[T]he manager told  me "the the chef apologises if the dish is a little sweeter than normal as he is using NEW SEASON ONIONS and will adjust the spice to compliment the flavour" ...

Now that was a chef, not just an over-elevated kitchen hand.  I wish I knew Indian restaurants where they still had chefs of his quality.
** Phil.

[chewytikka]

Onions and....

Hi daddyl
Welcome to the forum, good post and very accurate to my experience.
Infact in July, customers at two of my friends restaurants. were
commenting that their usual curries were too sweet, I never asked
how they corrected the problem, but lately I use cauliflower greens to add an extra savoury edge.
Still on onions, another friend who has an allotment, who I've had
some amazing produce from, told me that he lets his onions dry out
for at least five weeks before he bagged them. I'm pretty clueless
but I would love the opportunity to grow my own veg.
But allotments around here are strictly deadman's shoes.

cheers Chewy