Topic: Freezing main course dishes 2

[missy]

Hi everyone

Sorry, this is my second post on freezing curries.

I am opening a small indian and thai takeaway in about a week or so. My question for you guys is do you think it's a good idea to cook without any chicken, prawns, etc, fairly large batches of curries (for example jalfrezi) and put them in the freezer, and take out a box at a time with about 10 portions and allow it to naturally defrost when required, and add the chicken, chicken tikka or prawns to it when someone orders and simply warm it up in a frying pan? And do you think it's ok if we dont sell all the curry in a day to re freeze it (again without the meat in it)?

Really appreciate your responses

Regards

Phil

[Peripatetic Phil]

I am opening a small indian and thai takeaway in about a week or so. My question for you guys is do you think it's a good idea to cook without any chicken, prawns, etc, fairly large batches of curries (for example jalfrezi) and put them in the freezer, and take out a box at a time with about 10 portions and allow it to naturally defrost when required, and add the chicken, chicken tikka or prawns to it when someone orders and simply warm it up in a frying pan?

I don't think this will be the best way to establish the reputation of your business.  By all means freeze batches of base, and defrost as required, but when it comes to infusing the meat with the flavour of the curry, I really don't think this can be successfully achieved by simply dumping a portion of meat in a defrosted portion of curry sauce and warming it up in a frying pan.  It takes about ten minutes to cook a curry using base sauce, raw spices and part pre-cooked meat, and I think that most of your customers would prefer to wait that ten minutes for a really good curry rather than wait five and get something that has plenty of flavour in the sauce but almost none in the meat.  My two bahts-worth !

And do you think it's ok if we dont sell all the curry in a day to re freeze it (again without the meat in it)?

I think you're based in Thailand, are you not ?  In that case, you need to be extra careful about defrosting and refreezing because of the high ambient temperature, which will most definitely encourage the growth of bacteria.  You might get away with it, but if you don't and a few of your customers get food poisoning as a result, then your reputation may be destroyed forever.  Better to think in terms of defrost-on-demand, using a microwave oven.

** Phil.

[missy]

I am opening a small indian and thai takeaway in about a week or so. My question for you guys is do you think it's a good idea to cook without any chicken, prawns, etc, fairly large batches of curries (for example jalfrezi) and put them in the freezer, and take out a box at a time with about 10 portions and allow it to naturally defrost when required, and add the chicken, chicken tikka or prawns to it when someone orders and simply warm it up in a frying pan?

I don't think this will be the best way to establish the reputation of your business.  By all means freeze batches of base, and defrost as required, but when it comes to infusing the meat with the flavour of the curry, I really don't think this can be successfully achieved by simply dumping a portion of meat in a defrosted portion of curry sauce and warming it up in a frying pan.  It takes about ten minutes to cook a curry using base sauce, raw spices and part pre-cooked meat, and I think that most of your customers would prefer to wait that ten minutes for a really good curry rather than wait five and get something that has plenty of flavour in the sauce but almost none in the meat.  My two bahts-worth !

And do you think it's ok if we dont sell all the curry in a day to re freeze it (again without the meat in it)?

I think you're based in Thailand, are you not ?  In that case, you need to be extra careful about defrosting and refreezing because of the high ambient temperature, which will most definitely encourage the growth of bacteria.  You might get away with it, but if you don't and a few of your customers get food poisoning as a result, then your reputation may be destroyed forever.  Better to think in terms of defrost-on-demand, using a microwave oven.

** Phil.

Hi Phil

Thanks for your reply.

I know that it's much better to cook the curries fresh when someone orders but making larger batches in advance really would make our lives a lot easier at first, and then when we have more experience we can then begin to cook fresh. So, I'm not sure yet what we're going to do.

How many ml of curry base usually goes in a madras, CTM, etc for one portion? and do you think it's best if we put the base in one portion plastic bags and freeze and defrost when required?
We can also prepare the spice mixes in advance in separate plastic bags ready to add to the curries easily when someone orders.

[Unclefrank]

Be careful if you are freezing a Jalfrezi because the green peppers will take on a very bitter taste if frozen, dont know why because if you freeze green peppers on their own you dont get the bitterness (might be because it has been heated through).
I have frozen say just the sauce for a Jalfrezi and put the chicken (raw) into the sauce and frozen it, but i always put the other ingredients ( onion, pepper and green chilli) when i reheat the curry, fresh or pre-fried. Have also done this with Chicken Tikka made the marinade placed chicken in marinade then frozen in freezer bags, then just defrost when needed.
But has Phil said it is better cooked from fresh. Pre-cooked chicken/meat is the way forward for easy and fast way of cooking a curry which alot of restaurants do anyway.
The way i see it is, Would you buy a curry thats been frozen and just reheated or would like it prepared fresh on the premises?

[missy]

Be careful if you are freezing a Jalfrezi because the green peppers will take on a very bitter taste if frozen, dont know why because if you freeze green peppers on their own you dont get the bitterness (might be because it has been heated through).
I have frozen say just the sauce for a Jalfrezi and put the chicken (raw) into the sauce and frozen it, but i always put the other ingredients ( onion, pepper and green chilli) when i reheat the curry, fresh or pre-fried. Have also done this with Chicken Tikka made the marinade placed chicken in marinade then frozen in freezer bags, then just defrost when needed.
But has Phil said it is better cooked from fresh. Pre-cooked chicken/meat is the way forward for easy and fast way of cooking a curry which alot of restaurants do anyway.
The way i see it is, Would you buy a curry thats been frozen and just reheated or would like it prepared fresh on the premises?

Hi

Fresh is definitely the way to go and I suspected that would be the only way, but just wanted to find out for sure from people on here, because freezing them would be so much easier. I will pre cook the chicken, chicken tikka and prawns in advance and freeze them, and also freeze the curry base, but then cook the curries fresh when a customer orders.

[vinders]

HI there,

I've just been reading this thread with curiosity and wondered if Missy/Phil could share the experiences of opening a T-A restaurant?

Thanks

[haldi]

Sorry if this sounds a little rude, but I feel you should be totally aware of food hygiene methods, before even thinking of opening any food outlet.
People should be able to trust your cooking unreservedly

[976bar]

Once anything is cooked, frozen then de-frosted should never ever be frozen again but be discarded.

As Phil suggests, make your base sauce in batches, pre-cook your chicken/meat and freeze. I would marinate prawns and keep them in small batches in a fridge ready for use on that day only then prepare fresh that night or early the next day for that day.

Any base sauce that has been de-frosted and not used can of course be covered and left in the fridge for up to 2 days before being discarded.

If Phil is correct and you are in Thailand, just make sure your fridge is kept in the constant 1-4 degrees, which stops bacteria multiplying, anything above that 5 - 63 degrees (temperature danger zone) will allow bacteria to multiply in a short space of time.

All the best with your new venture and keep us posted on how you get along

[976bar]

You can do this course on line for your Level 2 award in food safety for catering. It may not be a requirement in Thailand, but for your peace of mind and knowledge on how to clean, store food, keeping hot food hot and cold food cold, etc etc etc... will allow you to sleep better at night, knowing you have followed the correct procedures...

www.highspeedtraining.co.uk

[Peripatetic Phil]

Sorry if this sounds a little rude, but I feel you should be totally aware of food hygiene methods, before even thinking of opening any food outlet.  People should be able to trust your cooking unreservedly

If we ignore the legal aspects (which are, of course, very important if one is not to be closed down prematurely), would you not agree that the rest is either common sense or overkill ?  Before we became obsessed with 'Elf 'n' Safety, our restaurants, cafes, pubs and so on all served (in the main) good wholesome food that all ate without compunction.  And very few got food poisoning.  Likewise our grandmothers prepared meals for families of fourteen, using a single knife and a single board to prepare meat, vegetables, fish and so on, and again, food poisoning was virtually unknown.  Now we have to have colour-coded boards, colour-coded knives, multiple sinks, and all of the other paraphernalia that are necessary only if you don't think about what you are doing.  I still have one board, one knife, and prepare everything on them and using them.  And I have /never/ had food poisoning as a result of this, nor has my wife or any of our guests.

Bob, I don't think there's any evidence that Vinders lives/works/wants to open a T/A in Thailand; you may be confusing him with Missy.  Or maybe you were answering Missy and I am confused by Vinders' more recent question !

** Phil.