Topic: How long to cook the base sauce?

[Razor]

Hi guy's,

Ok, I've made quite a few different base sauces now, and I have also created my own.  Some have been okish, some have been good and one or two have been great but the one thing that seems to be missing from them all, is that familiar sweetness that you get from your favorite BIR or TA!

So, my question is this, how long should a base sauce be cooked for?

I guess the ones that I've tried ask for about 1 - 1 1/2 hours cooking but there are many reports that the base should be cooked for longer.  I think Jerrym cooks his bases for quite a while and chinois, in his latest video, quickly mentions his base being cooked for about 3 hours!

I'm begging to wonder if a 3 hour cook, will sweeten my base(s) up?  I always end up adding a bit of sugar to my final curry, to give it that BIR sweetness but I don't think that it is a BIR method?

So, where am I going wrong?  I get the savouriness that I desire, no problem.  I also get the flavour that I want, I'm just lacking sweetness.  This is my personal missing 5%, once I get that, I've cracked it IMO.

Any thoughts, and how long are you guy's cooking your base gravies for?

Ray

[976bar]

To be honest Razor, I don't think it would matter if you cooked it for 24 hours. If the sweetness isn't in there in the first place, then cooking it longer is not going to produce that...... You're not going to produce something that is not there in the first place....

That will go for all cuisines. The longer you cook it, might develop more body.... but if you want it sweeter, then you will either have to add it at the beginning or add it to the final curry...

[Razor]

Hi 976,

Thanks for that.  Do you get a sweetness with your fav TA/BIR or is it a northern thing?

Do you have a sweetness with your own curries and if so, what do you use to get the sweetness in there, assuming that you don't use sugar?

Many thanks,

Ray

[Peripatetic Phil]

No discernible sweetness in mine, nor would I look for any (though herself might), but if I were to want to create it I might add pineapple juice in small quantities ...  Alternatively, maybe consider a different type of onion or a different way of cooking the onion, since I believe that onions can be persuaded to yield sweetness if handled appropriately.

** Phil. 

[976bar]

Hi Ray,

I used to love sweet curries when I was younger. I cut my teeth on Lamb Korma for many years, some even bought me out in a sweat!! lol

But nowadays, I don't like sweet curries. The favourite dish I make is Garlic Chilli Chicken, then a Madras, then a Vindaloo. Some recipes call for sugar, but I really don't like that in my curries anymore.

I also used to like Dhansak, but have now found that the sweet and sour and hot taste is not to my liking.

I always make, Korma, Tikka Masala and Kashmiri masala for the kids, but I prefer the above.

My favourite dish of all time is the Lamb Bhuna, but I have really struggled in producing this dish to the point of giving up. Lamb is just too expensive to experiment with.

I bought a fresh leg of lamb the other day ?22.00. I butterflied it, turned half of it into a slow cook lamb and made a wonderful madras with it, some is still in the fridge. The other half I made a tikka with. I used Blades recipe as I have found that the best recipe for tikka, but instead of using chilli powder, I used a chippotle chilli.

It was dried, so I soaked it for 20 minutes then roughly chopped it and added it to the marinade. (That was Thursday). I got it out the fridge today and cooked it. I can't describe the smoky tikka taste, it was lovely...

We had it tonight with salad and yogurt mint sauce.....

If only I could master that Bhuna!!!

[Razor]

Maybe Phil, but adding pineapple juice would be heading down the dhansak route for me.  We definately have a sweetness in our Manchester curries but I wouldn't say that it is a 'sugary' sweetnes.

It's hard for me to describe it really but I know that by adding sugar, it does take me a step closer to what I prefer.

I think jaggery adds a sweetness doesn't it, I don't know for sure as I've never used it but I'm sure that I've read it somewhere.  Again though, is it very BIR?

I agree, the way we handle our onions will determine how sweet we can get them, that's why I fry them off in my base for 10 minutes or so, but I still don't get the sweetness that Im looking for!  I know just boiling them doesn't give it me, that's for sure.

Ray

[976bar]

I've added Jaggery before and it does give a sweetness and a different sweetness to white refined sugar.

Have you tried soft brown sugar? This is normally un-refined, may be similar to jaggery, but it's worth a go.

[Razor]

Hi 976,

I cut my teeth on Lamb Korma for many years,

I totally agree, Korma, CTM and Dhansak are far too sweet for me also.  There is a definite high amount of sugar in these dishes.  I'm not after that level of 'sugary' sweetness but a hint of it, I dunno, it's hard for me to describe it.

The flavour I get form my TA/BIR's just hits the nose before the palate, I can almost smell if a curry is going to be right before I taste it.  It's one of the flavours that smells the same as it tastes if that makes any sense (probably doesn't lol)

Like I said, 0.5 tsp in a madras does get me almost there, but just not quite.  I've upped the quantity, and it goes too sweet then, that's why I don't believe it comes from sugar.

My only other thought, was to cook out the base for about 3 hours, but it does seem a little excessive!

Ray

[976bar]

I know exactly what you mean Razor. If it smells good as it hits the palate then you know it's going to be a good curry.

When you add the sugar, try cooking the sauce through a bit more before adding the meat. I normally add the sugar when i am cooking the spices, as it caramalises better.

Then, when cooking the sauce through, let it cook a little while longer before adding the meat or chicken..

[Razor]

Hi 976,

No, I haven't tried brown sugar.  I'm keen to try the Jaggery now that you have confirmed that it does offer a sweet note.  I would still love to know what our BIR's do though as I can't see them using sugar or jaggery in their base gravies.

When you add the sugar, try cooking the sauce through a bit more before adding the meat. I normally add the sugar when i am cooking the spices, as it caramalises better.

Then, when cooking the sauce through, let it cook a little while longer before adding the meat or chicken..

Yep, that's pretty much my method too.  I want to get it in to the base sauce though, so that all my curries, Madras, Bhuna, Dupiaza, and so on, all have that familiar sweetness.

Don't ya just love this BIR thing

Ray