Topic: another question by bjplayer.....cooking spices

[bjplayer]

thx for all the helpful replies.

hearing that a few of you have actually worked in indian restaurants theres something id like clearing up....(well plenty of things but lets start here

on the base i was shown it had some spices cooked in oil with puree and tin  tomatoes.. from what i had been told to get a dry powdered spice to flavour in cooking it must be fried (norm in onion and garlic) but def fried as opposed to any water tomato juice which would lead to them boiling..

whats the opinion of those that have seen it done?... the sauce i was given on here was highly rated but spices effectively boiled in tomato can sauce..

whats your opinions

[Peripatetic Phil]

Personally speaking, I follow Kris Dhillon's methodology and do not explicitly fry my spices; they are added during the final cooking phase, to a liquid which consists in part of base sauce and in part of oil.  Without the oil, this would produce an awful "Old-fashioned English curry" flavour, where the raw flavour of the spices is all too obvious; but with a clear excess of oil, some of which will be floating on the surface, the spices appear to cook to perfection, and there is no trace of any flavour of raw spice in the final dish.

Other members of the forum swear by the Bruce Edwards' methodology, in which the spices are first fried and then quenched with base at the optimal point (i.e., when cooked but before burnt); I will leave them to define this method in greater detail.

Note added after further introspection : I don't claim to understand why or how Kris Dhillon's method works, when other authorities such as Bruce Edwards maintain that frying is essential to the proper release of flavour from the spices, but having thought about it since I first posted this reply I now believe that the key factor is that the spices must be in contact with oil while they are cooking : it is not the higher temperatures that cooking in oil (as opposed to a water-based liquid) can achieve but the simple chemistry of the spice and the oil being in intimate contact while the former is being cooked.  This would help to explain why Kris Dhillon, and other authorities who espouse the same methodology, emphasise the importance of an abundance of oil, typically going on to state that excess oil can be removed just before the curry is served but it is vital that it is present in adequate quantity during the cooking itself.

** Phil.

[Stephen Lindsay]

Other members of the forum swear by the Bruce Edwards' methodology, in which the spices are first fried and then quenched with base at the optimal point (i.e., when cooked but before burnt); I will leave them to define this method in greater detail.

** Phil.

I'm in that group that Phil mentions bj, the theory being that frying spices releases their natural oils and flavours and, in the case of chilli, cooks it out properly to ensure that there are no next day after effects, if you get my meaning. I guess it has its roots in home style Indian cookery where one off family dishes are prepared by first frying onions, garlic and ginger along with the spices for that dish.

However it may be a case of trying it out for yourself and making your own mind up. Rules are there to be followed, then broken!

[Razor]

Hi BJ, and welcome to cr0 fella (sorry it's a bit late)

Ok, frying spices v boiling them;  for me, spices need to be fried.  You need to cook out the rawness, especially chilli powder, although I don't use it in my base.

You will have noticed, I assume, that there are two popular ways of making a base gravy here on cr0, one being the "all in and boil" method,  the second being a "two stage" base.

The "all in" base is usually achieved by adding all the veg, tomatoes, and spices in a good quantity of oil, and covered with water.  Bring all this to the boil, and simmer for about 40 - 60 minutes or until you can cut the toughest veg with a spoon.  Let cool for a while, then blitz.

I don't know the exact science but I guess, with there being a fair amount of oil in there, that it does slightly fry the spices but I couldn't say for sure.

My method, is to, chop all the veg that you are using, add a quantity of oil to the pan, cover with water and bring to the boil.  Whilst that pan is boiling away, in a separate pan, I add oil, and gently fry the spices off.  I then add a tin of chopped tomatoes, bring back to the boil, then simmer until the tomato mixture thickens into a paste.  Once this is achieved, I add the tomato paste to the big pan of veg, and continue to boil until the veg is soft, then blitz.

Either method works fine, as long as you fry off the spices when cooking your main dish.

I guess it's just horses for courses really.

Here's my base for you to get a better understanding of my method http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0

Hope that helps mukka,

Ray