Topic: Kashmiri masala/ Kashmiri paste

[Secret Santa]

When I was making Dip's tikka a few weeks ago I was pondering what to do about the use of pastes in most of the tandoori and tikka recipes we have here as i really dislike using them.

Well I started to collate some information from the web, as you'll see below, with the intention of formulating a generic Kashmiri powder/paste that we could use as the forum standard.

I never got any further though because work got in the way but I reckon this could be a good one for a forum team effort, especially as some forum members can't get these masalas.

So here's the raw data. Where do you think we should go from here?




Pataks (chilli and garlic hot)

Vegetable Oil, Water, Salt, Cinnamon (7%), Ginger (6%), Black Pepper, Concentrated Tomato Puree, Sugar,

Maize Flour, Cardamom, Coriander, Acetic Acid, Cumin, Spices


Tiger Tiger(chilli rating medium)

Rapeseed Oil, Ground Spices (Chilli, Coriander, Garam Masala, Ginger, Cumin, Turmeric), Water, Garlic

Powder, Salt, Red Chilli, Mango Powder, Garlic, Ginger, Acidity Regulators (Acetic Acid, Citric Acid,

Lactic Acid), Spirit Vinegar, Tamarind Concentrate, Modified Maize Starch

Rajah

Water, Salt, Vegetable Oil (Rape Seed Oil, Cotton Seed Oil), Coriander, Chilli, Cumin, Lentils, Garlic,

Ginger, Acetic Acid, Turmeric, Aniseed, Fenugreek, Cloves, Cinnamon, Bay Leaf.






And here it is in (very messy) table form where you can see the common ingredients and just how different the three masalas are.



patak         tiger tiger         rajah

veg oil         rapeseed oil         rapeseed oil
salt                     salt            salt
ginger 6%      ginger              ginger
coriander      coriander           coriander
acetic acid      acetic acid           acetic acid
cumin                cumin             cumin
cinnamon 7%                           cinnamon
corn flour          corn flour
                       chilli                 chilli
                      turmeric             turmeric
                      garlic                 garlic

black pepper                     
tom puree                     
sugar                                    
cardamom                     
                  garam masala            
                  garlic powder
                  mango powder            
                  spirit vinegar            
                  tamarind            
                                             lentils
                                             aniseed
                                             fenugreek
                                             cloves
                                             bay leaf

[Razor]

Hi SS,

It's amazing how the Pataks (chilli and Garlic) contains, no garlic?

So, looking at your table then, the first 6 ingredients seem to be the foundation for all of these paste's.

Just one question SS, the three varieties of paste's that you have listed, are they all Kashmiri masala paste's?

The trick here will be judging the level of each ingredient and striking the right balance.

Ray

[JerryM]

Secret Santa,

sorry missed this post initially (easily done these days with so many trees blurring the wood)

on a similar wavelength. i have dippies 4 off jars (tandoori paste, tikka paste, kashmiri masala chilli & garlic, kebab paste) in the fridge which are un loved (need space for pizza dough boxes) and pretty much un touched.

i guess my 1st question is are these pastes useful in main dishes or do BIR's only use them for tikka and tandoori. is anyone using them a lot.

2nd question and low priority really for me. are they needed to make top notch tikka.

i currently make lasan and tweaked CA's. these are very very good (i don't see better).

i been studying the rest of the field for a while (jb, blades, panpot, dippi, ifindforu, KD1, LB) and they are all quite different - there aren't any immediate patterns jumping out.

i guess i'm sort of struggling on direction. i've not made some of the list and really need to try them 1st - certainly ifindforu's as i really rate his base and all his words of wisdom.

in short do we really need any of the bought pastes - given there are no special ingredients. they also taste rubbish well "vinegar" and if used in too high proportion cause a bad after taste.

i suppose another thing on my mind is can we come up with a list of essential "tikka" ingredients.

[JerryM]

i've had a go at ifindforu's tikka. will detail in relevant post although i've noticed he has a few recipes posted.

anyhow was well impressed - exceeded expectations (questions my no2). the pataks could not be detected. i'm going to make again next week minus the pataks and see if there is any discernable difference.

will add link once i've found it.

mod1: link http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4968.msg48047#msg48047

[solarsplace]

Hi Jerry

Just saw your post, and just my two-penneth.

i guess my 1st question is are these pastes useful in main dishes or do BIR's only use them for tikka and tandoori. is anyone using them a lot.

Personally use the Kashmiri paste frequently in things like kebabs and bhajis, not so far in main dishes made from a base.

Also frequently use Tikka paste now in tikka dishes. Have ditched the tandoori paste specified in the recipes as have decided that it is actually rather nasty.

Dip seems to be the biggest advocate of these pastes in his videos on this site, an example being the balti video (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4520.0) where you seem to be having quite some success? have you found this to be the only main where you have had good results with additional pastes?

2nd question and low priority really for me. are they needed to make top notch tikka.

I don't think they are a necessity to make a top notch tikka, CA's for example proves this. But if a recipe includes a paste as an ingredient such as this one, where I made my tikka / tandoori paste discovery (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=874.msg52375#msg52375) actually works, then I don't think its worth stressing over. These things are just time savers.

My personal opinion is that it is not a requirement to use a paste to produce a 100% BIR result. We all know that some BIRs use them. However one rather splendid restaurant near me does not use them and their tikka is truly excellent.

Cheers

[JerryM]

solarsplace,

appreciate your thoughts.

i too have used tamarind for some time (in CA's tikka, not in lasan).

thanks for comment on your local restaurant - confirms my gut feeling. it will be interesting how the ifindforu result goes next week with the pataks left out. i under promised and over delivered this week in using the recipe for the 1st time - family really loved it (and so did myself). i won't tell them before they taste the 2nd go - so should be interesting (hoping not for an over promise and under deliver).

have not tried the pastes in any other mains - only the balti. have no urge either.

must admit i was really taken aback by the balance of the pastes in ifindforu's tikka - in the past i've found an after taste comes through but clearly that's only down to error in the recipe.

must admit as a result of 1st go i've changed my mind and think i will be stocking the 3 off pastes. but there is still a long way to go in terms of review. will need to do a few side by sides to be sure on my top2.

[JerryM]

have got the rev 2 batch on the go ie ifindforu tikka minus all the pataks.

have attached pic before mixing to give feel for the amount of mixture needed.

have also looked at the ingredients of the tikka paste, tandoori paste and kashmiri paste. the result really does support dumping the pastes - missing ingredients from the rest of the recipe ingredients being:

a) tamerind
b) paprika (depends on your spice mix)
c) garlic & ginger
d) chilli powder (recipe uses green chilli so sort of not missing)
e) losts of acid - acetic, citric, lactic
f) "spices" - these of course are not specified on the jars

i'm quite confident that adding back in a few ingredients the pastes can be dumped and a better overall result delivered with very little extra effort.

time will tell.

[JerryM]

there are 6 off ifindforu tikka recipes which i've have had a good read through. it's hard to be sure just from the recipe but i feel the one i'm using is the best (in terms of the patak paste proportions and amounts: total of 12.5ml in current recipe). there is quite a variation though. tikka paste is used in all recipes. tandoori paste in 3 off recipe. kashmiri in 5 off recipe.

ps now had chance to taste the tikka marinade without the pataks ie the batch 2 version - it tasted a little flat and given the extensive use of acid in the pastes have added back in 1 tbsp of lime juice.


pic of batch 2 (5 off breast ea cut longways in half)



links to ifindforu tikka:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4968.msg48047#msg48047

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2896.0

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2905.0

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2895.0

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2577.0

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=932.0

[JerryM]

emm. disappointing really.

the 2nd batch ie ifindforu minus the pataks plus some lime juice was disappointing (say 7/10).

that zing of a top notch recipe was missing. even the smell during the cooking was flat.

i suppose you could persevere and tweak the recipe to the in the end dispense with the pataks. i am in no doubt that it would be feasible.

for me i'm going to chuck in the towel and keep the pataks stuff.

i want to get back onto vindaloo and such like.

the ifindforu as spec recipe is a keeper though - many thanks to terry - star man

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4968.msg48047#msg48047

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4968.msg52802#msg52802

[JerryM]

i've made 2 further batches of the tikka with the pataks. i'm sold on including it.

end of story for me on the pataks stuff - not essential but useful.