More info on the Kushi Balti book.

[Yellow Fingers]

I was just looking at the sample pages for the new book and I think we're not going to get any new methods or 'secrets' from it judging by this. Although the unknown factor, at least at this stage, is the Kushi spice mix which might make a difference but I doubt it. I think it's likely to be one of the best books for total beginners to the hobby though.

These are the pages, they are a bit lo-res but you can get the idea from them.

The originals are here http://www.kushibalti.co.uk/about.htm

[George]

Sadly, my expectations for this new book are quite low, only because all the books, videos and eBay offerings which have gone before have failed in producing the BIR taste, whilst promising just that in the preamble and pre-purchase publicity. If they said it was impossible to produce the BIR taste at home, and explained why, but "here are some recipes for a poor second best", then I might be more accepting.

The gap in expectations with any of these books can be one of only two things - either (a) they deliberately hold back certain ingredients or techniques or (b) techniques like final tasting really are vital and nobody here has ever succeeded.   I still vote for (a).

My acid test (as mentioned before) is now whether a bag of home made curries in sealed foiled containers and a plastic carrier bag would smell as strong and delicious outdoors as the take-away delivered to my neighbour a few months back. I only knew somebody was walking towards their house, when the smell hit me. This can't be anything too subtle, to smell so strong.

The other acid test is whether any of our attempts (recipes) could be 'signed off' as perfectly 'up to the job' if we decided to set up a take-away as a test of public opinion, i.e. that our customers would think these dishes were (a) good and (b) had the taste they've come to expect from any BIR. A bit like that TV programme where people have a few weeks to train for a different job, and see if they can persuade experts.

Regards
George

[DARTHPHALL]

(a & b).last paragraph.
I`ve had three friends ask me if i would like to go into business cooking my Curries in a sort of local Curry house after they tasted my two last recipes ( Vindalloo & Madras ).no joke .
They really think ive got a viable product & that my Curries would have people coming back again & again.
this of course give me a great boost & drives me to keep striving as I'm sooooo close .

[Yellow Fingers]

My acid test (as mentioned before) is now whether a bag of home made curries in sealed foiled containers and a plastic carrier bag would smell as strong and delicious outdoors as the take-away

George I remember when you said this the first time and I wholeheartedly agree. It bears repeating occasionally so that the new members to the site can see what we are trying to achieve. But I'll tell you now, I truly believe we will never achieve this goal until one of us has been shown the ingredients and techniques, from making the base sauce to the finished curry, actually in a curry house. This is the only way that we will pick up on the missing ingredient or technique that is apparently not obvious to the chefs who have helped people on this forum.

It's just not plausible that between the number of books we've read between us, the number of curries that we've made and the number of small variations we must have made to each curry that someone hasn't stumbled across the secret. There has to be something that is not being revealed, even if it is inadvertently.

[pete]

It's just not plausible that between the number of books we've read between us, the number of curries that we've made and the number of small variations we must have made to each curry that someone hasn't stumbled across the secret. There has to be something that is not being revealed, even if it is inadvertently.

I don't think it can be done at home
With all of our witnessed demos and countless hours experimenting and discussing ideas, someone would have done it by now
I am sure the chefs who visited my house and let me in their kitchens, were not lying or hiding anything.
I believe this new curry book will be genuine too
I don't think we will get any closer, though.
I think the restaurant curry is somehow, the product of it's environment
I have bought "alright" curries, which I have made as good
But when I buy a good one, there is no way I could match that
Maybe the fumes of cooking, and the tandoor, get absorbed into the curry base
I have seen them salvage oil from a curry and put it back in the base, too.
That oil would be highly flavoured
Maybe if you attempted to cook 50 varied curries in one evening (doing the flambe bit) and saved the oil for the curry base,(while also cooking 30 skewers of tandoori chicken), you'd get what you want
Actually I would quite like to try!

[blade1212]

Pete, I disagree. I believe any BIR could and should be exactly replicated at home - it defies logic that this is not possible. The fact that many people are trying 10/20/30 onion base derivatives should remove the dependency on quantities not being accurate either.

Keep the faith,  someone will get it spot on sooner or later.

[Mark J]

To me the big thing that cant be replicated at home is the fact that you have cooked the dish yourself, you havent walked a mile, had a couple of pints before hand and then had the dish brought steaming to your table.

Having said that there is definately something different about BIR curries, in the oil maybe, a tarka of onions and garlic added maybe?

[pete]

I will never stop trying, but last Saturday's curry was a real smack in the face
I reheated frozen curries
They were all good and tasty curries
But one of them was a bought curry
The aroma was nothing like any of my cooked curries
It had that wonderful smokey onion smell
It's not a spice smell
It's flavour also had that extra something
If you tried a bit, it was very difficult to resist another "taste"
The closest home made curry was one that had Black Cardomons and Chicken Jelly in it
I have watched them prepare curries at the place where I got the bought curry
It's a very simple recipe
It has to be the base where the flavour is

[George]

Pete, I disagree. I believe any BIR could and should be exactly replicated at home - it defies logic that this is not possible.

Blade

I'm with you, and Yellow Fingers, I think, on this one. I see no scientific, logical or common sense reason why we shouldn't be able to produce exactly the same taste and aroma at home, without massive investment (e.g. a ?3000++ commercial tandoor), time or trouble - just the apparently still missing know-how.

Regards
George

[Yellow Fingers]

It has to be the base where the flavour is

Yes I totally agree. What's common to all the curries?, the elusive taste and smell. What else is common to all the curries?, the base sauce. It can't be the making of the finished curry because that's something that, apart perhaps from the size of the gas burner, is something we can exactly produce at home.

We're never likely to get anyone to see the full making of the base as done in a restaurant just because it takes so long. The problem then is that whatever it is that's giving the taste and possibly the smell is apparently something unwittingly done by the chef. I say unwittingly because if all the bases that have been divulged by the chefs to people on this forum are accurate, but still don't give the taste, then the chef is clearly not aware that some part of the base making process is crucial to it. This would seem to be confirmed by those members who have not only been told by the chefs that it can't be reproduced at home, but have had those same chefs around to cook it, and guess what, it didn't have the taste or smell.

It has to be because of the quantities that that the base sauce is made in. Now I don't mean that because they cook say 50 onions for a base sauce and we cook only 4, say, that there is some magic that stops it coming out the same flavour, that's just nonsense. What I mean is that some mechanical process, or some technique that is used purely because they have to deal with such large quantities is somehow totally transforming the final product.

So in my opinion it is something that is involved with bulk cooking of the base sauce and it's not because of the smaller quantities made at home. It also has to be common to nearly all Indian restaurants because they virtually all have that taste and smell.

I have to say too that I still don't have the faith that most of the people here do that the chefs are telling the whole story. Omission after all is not the same as telling porkies. As proof just look back at the chicken stock debate. At the start of this forum it was never considered. When finally it was suggested, most people said 'no way, they can't use stock in the base'. A few weeks on from that people had managed to find out that infact some do use stock in the curry base. And what about the re-use of the oil from the base when making the finished curry. Not the greatest crime, but they might not want you to know they do this. Just how many more little tricks might they be using and in what combination? This speaks volumes to me.

It's totally frustrating and I dare say this topic will come up again and again as it has before, just because it is so frustrating.

So, the question is what techniques/operations/methods could be being used by the curry houses when preparing bulk quantities for the base, that might have an effect on the final taste?