Almighty disaster - questions chopped onion frying

[JerryM]

2 out of 3 mains i cooked last night called for chopped onion (976bar Kashmiri & Admins Jalfrezi).

i pre cooked as stated above using the "par boil" method ie simmer 5 mins after the pan had returned to the boil.

last time i cooked i used 4tbsp (1 chef) of oil and the 5 min par boil worked a treat (as we all know the amount of oil being critical to the BIR output). last night i reduced the oil to 3 tbsp to gauge the envelop of the 5 min par boil onion. it was clear that that the onion took far too long to cook out during the frying stage (the g/g paste was starting to become far too sticky).

consequently i have increased the par boil time from 5 to 10 mins for the next go.

[emin-j]

JerryM , cant help thinking the sauce in your Curries look a bit ' Lumpy '  I think larger pieces of Onion are part of the ingredients in say a Dopiaza ( thin slices ) and  they look quite decorative in their larger size , perhaps you could try slicing your Onion some hours before you need to cook them , I've been doing this lately for making my Bhaji's and the Onion goes really soft and releases a fair bit of liquid and I think they then would fry quicker and easier , alternatively , I have been trying more ' Curries from scratch ' lately and following the Onion frying stage I have been putting the fried Onions through the blender this creates a lovely smooth sauce which just needs simmering with the other Curry ingredients to make a lovely Curry.

[JerryM]

emin-j,

the "lumpy" may be down to pepper or banana - these are the only lumpy ingredients i add at frying. the sauce is very smooth - i make sure i grind all the spices going into the base sufficiently and the cheapo handblender does work a treat on blending the base. i also cook base for 4 hrs now as std (was 3hrs).

ps as an example the Heswall Tandoori kashmiri was almost identical to my take on it (thanks to 976bars inspiration)

it's the 3mm sq size chopped onion that you get in quite a few dishes that i'm very much interested in. what i've noticed in side by side comparison was that the BIR although still having texture were much more moorish than mine (it's quite a critical factor that i had previously overlooked).

when i had the breakthrough earlier in this post i realised this difference was down to the BIR onion being cooked more. i also realised that this "extra" cooking could not be achieved at the frying stage as easily as the BIR does. this for me this was conclusive proof that BIR's pre cook the "chopped" onion in some way. i've settled on par boiling. i am now fine tuning how long to pre cook (to make sure i get consistency).

an alternative as you say would be to salt them as i think Panpot 1st alerted us to in Bhajis making. i know the general concensus "IG" has moved away from this. i am however still a convert and soften the onion for bhajis in exactly the way Panpot described. i am well pleased that you are also having success in the approach.

i must admit i haven't tried the bhaji softening method for "making" chopped onion for dish frying. it's a definite possibility and will keep it as back up in case the par boil method does not deliver (although from experience so far i believe it does).

in general terms i am now very happy with my mains - i see only a need for recipe refinement going forward.

best wishes.

[emin-j]

Still as keen as ever eh JerryM  Could you increase the amount of Onion in your Base Sauce to give the same result ? Referring to the ' Undercover Curry ' Base which has a high percentage of Onions compared to other Base's.
Keep up the good work JerryM 

[JerryM]

emin-j,

the amount of onion in the base is very important - far more needed than is initially perceived. i work on 100g raw onion per 300ml portion of finished base (same as Dipuraja).  in getting a real BIR base and dragging the back of a spoon across a small amount it was very clear that whilst a base needs to be "thin" it's not actually watery.

the chopped onion at dish frying is very different to the onion in the base in terms of the effect on the dish. for example i'd expect to find chopped onion in say a chicken madras but not in a CTM.

[Secret Santa]

i'd expect to find chopped onion in say a chicken madras but not in a CTM.

I wouldn't even expect to see chopped onion in a madras. Obviously down to regional variation again.

[JerryM]

I wouldn't even expect to see chopped onion in a madras.

I'm used to having "plain curry" and "Madras" mains listed on the menu. the plain curry would be just plain sauce. the madras similar but more delux version including chopped onion and probably a little green pepper. just shows how difficult our objective is. even more when you add in that you can have the plain curry madras hot. circles or what.

[JerryM]

consequently i have increased the par boil time from 5 to 10 mins for the next go.

tried out the 10 mins and confirmed spot on. i continue to add a little turmeric as this seems to cut down on that cooking onion smell reminiscent of KD1 base.

[Panpot]

Jerry. I tend to follow much if not all of your input here and genuinely value all I am learning from you just as I do with others too. I wondered whether it makes sense for you to post elsewhere your now definitive recipe or approach to pre cooked onion as this type of conclusion coming out over what can be a lengthy thread can get lost on all of us unless we are reading and remembering everything on the site. Just a thought. PP

[JerryM]

Panpot,

always pleased to see you posting and obviously enjoying our mutual curry passion.

post done as requested.

best wishes,

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5129.0