Topic: splitting the beghar

[JerryM]

are there advantages of causing the curry to split during dish frying (by over cooking the baghar stage oil,g/g,mix,puree etc before adding the bulk of the base)

i always aim never to split as the curries taste good without splitting and have never gelled with the "extra" floating oil that it causes.

if the oil skimming works then splitting could work for me if there is an advantage.

[Peripatetic Phil]

You may want to (re-)read this thread, Jerry — overall, I interpret it as saying that splitting (as opposed to separating out) is something to be avoided rather than desired.
--
** Phil.

[JerryM]

ruddy heck -just realised i've spelt  baghar wrong.

Phil,

the link is a good point "splitting as opposed to separating out" and what i'm trying to understand.

the only time i see separating out (except if i over cook the baghar by mistake) is when i thin the base and re heat it in preparation for dish fry (i actually fry with room temp base). the oil that surfaces i use to start the dish fry (plus plain oil if i run out). the amount of reheating is nothing like when the baghar splits - 2 types of separation exist are they the same?.

what is the reason separating is good yet splitting is bad (splitting occurring at the end of dish fry not on the plate, oil leaking onto the plate has already surfaced at end of dish fry (or that's what i think).

am jus trying to get a better wording of it so i can understand it.

my interest was rekindled recently when  made cauli cheese using the same method as i always do - the sauce split into water and curd - very nasty experience. have since learnt that cheese chemically splits at 180C. my folly being to put the cauli into a 220C cooling oven after cooking roast pots.

maybe im just searching for what the science of oil and base because oil and water don't mix - so what holds the oil in the onion & veg base

[livo]

My understanding of "splitting" from what Chewytikka has said:  It is desirable in a good BIR curry that the oil and water have emulsified or become homogenous in texture and remain so upon serving.  When splitting occurs the oil and water become separate again and bleed from the dish, on the plate, and this is usually the result of over-cooking.  This results in what is considered to be a poor BIR curry.  Splitting would in this case be a different thing to simply having excess oil that does not emulsify in the first place and can be spooned off.  I have experienced splitting from over-cooking as opposed to simply having excess oil and it doesn't make for a particularly nice dish.

There is science involved in the nature of solutions, solubility and saturation.  Certain factors will enhance solubility (emulsification) and others will reverse it.

It is common to see the instruction in Base Gravy preparation as the final stage, to continue to simmer until oil separation.  Would this not be similar to splitting, and in this instance a desirable outcome?  It sometimes works for me and other times I give up without separation, but I can't, in all honesty, say it's made much (any) noticeable difference to the curries made from the gravy.

[JerryM]

livo,

many thanks once again.

overnight the "water bleed" has jumped into my mind - it being just as bad if not worse than oil bleed. chewytikka knows his stuff and me big fan.

feel i need to improve my understanding of the emulsification in curry "oil onion and water"

i don't get water on my BIR but have experienced it in BIR restaurants sometimes. from my own none curry cooking i know if dish isn't condensed enough the strength of the taste is inferior (say an Italian tomato sauce). i may be mixing things up - i dont know. let me explain.

i make what i call crockpot curry often (8 portions for use during the working week). it's essentially base cooked slowly till the onions melt, then blend, then thin (i dont add water to the start of any base). if i add too much water this bleeds out but the curry itself is incredibly thick and feels like it needs the extra thinning water (the amount of onion should make 10 portion)

whatever the emulsifier is - i'm clearly missing it.

got to just add a thanky to bengalibob and the adil for inspiring shredded chicken which transforms the crockpot.

PS i don't get fused about simmering till oil surfaces. once i've got the scum off i'm happy (not all think scum removal important), (scum off within 5 -10mins of coming to simmer). sometimes oil surfaces as the base cools. i do like to cook with base oil - for me its about lots of little things that on their own are hard to justify but collectively make a difference.

[livo]

I have read the Mustard enhances emulsification of olive oil in vinegarette.  Perhaps a sploosh of Coleman's or even wholegrain / seeded will assist.  I like mustard in curry, but it may not suite every dish.

[mickdabass]

I quite like mustard in some currys

[JerryM]

not getting far on the science of this - surfactants and emulsifiers getting too deep for curry. adding lecithin as an example.

only learning being carrot & onion are high in pectin (which is good for oil water bond). if the start of the stage 1 base is not rapidly brought close to boil then enzymes can breakdown the pectin. moral being turn up gas and hope the pan bottom does not burn by giving onion/carrot a few stirs. going to try it out on the next crockpot.