Topic: Balti

[Kashmiri Bob]

Crikey.  Have you never had a dodgy takeaway livo?  I've had absolutely loads (a lifetime) of them, not just in Birmingham, well, everywhere I have ever been in England.  Must be good where you are. 

I have also experienced the best-of-the-best in the Balti Triangle, imo.  The sheer magic of the Birmingham balti, so I am OK with a dodgy one, occasionally.  A bigger problem for me is mediocrity.  Poor to average curry, bland and boring.  I don't accept bland curry. 

The demise of the balti here I feel is more complicated than you conclude.  But keeping it curry related, one contributor, I feel, will be the huge number of takeaways/restaurants that have popped-up everywhere, banging out boring and bland curry.  A lot of people accept it.  No travel needed.  Order on-line.  Stick it on the card.  Get the kids their nuggets and fries too.  A lot of children in England believe that chicken nuggets grow on trees.  I kid you not.  Perhaps people have just forgotten the balti.  It is a pity. 

From a selfish perspective I am truly over-the-moon with Mick's perfect Al Frash recipe.  I am not looking for the balti anymore (Adils aside).  It's already right in front of me. I am just curious to see if any of the remaining true balti houses can still match it, or even get close. 

Rob             

[Stophammer]

There's a "from scratch" recipe here:
http://titlisbusykitchen.com/recipe/chicken-balti
I haven't tried it yet, but the spice mix makes a nice mix powder for standard BIR curry cooking.

Balti Spice Mix:
5 tsp garam masala
4 tsp coriander powder
2½ tsp gram flour (besan)
2½ tsp garlic powder
2 tsp cumin powder
2 tsp fenugreek powder
2 tsp paprika
2 tsp turmeric
½ tsp ground ginger
½ tsp chilli powder
½ tsp cinnamon powder
½ tsp black pepper

[livo]

I have experienced sub par Indian on only 2 occasions I can recall. One was a takeaway lamb pasanda that was all gravy and hardly any lamb. It was still a nice curry but only sauce with about 3 pieces of lamb. The other, from a different place, was chicken tikka that had been kept warm for way too long and was bone dry and crunchy.

I don't often buy curry any more since I cook my own but on the odd occasion when I do, I'm never disappointed.  In fact, most of the time it makes me feel that my own (BIR) efforts are somewhat still lacking.  There's that missing bit again.

Fish 'n' chips though, that's another story. What used to be staple is now rubbish.  Surprisingly, it is almost impossible to buy decent deep fried, battered fish and the worst I've come across lately is at the Sydney Fish Market.  Who would have thought that the biggest outlet of fresh fish, with food service outlets, cannot produce a decent fish cocktail?

[livo]

Two Baltis.

Could they be any more different?  There are still similarities though!

Here are 2 "Balti" dish videoes, I watched this morning.  They are not the same dish (one is Chicken Tikka and the other is Chicken & Spinach) but they are both claimed to be Balti.
 
The Birmingham Balti cooks the chicken from raw again, while the BIR uses pre-cooked (it's Tikka so can't be avoided really).  I think the different approaches taken by the chefs is important as it clearly demonstrates the differences between Birmingham and BIR (to me anyway).  There are some very informative moments in the commentary of both.

The first one is a follow on from the Misty Ricardo and Andy Munro visit to the kitchen of Shababs and again cooked by Chef Zaf. This looks like a really nice curry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H77IzOvx04

An interesting thing here is the quantity of Paprika used. If I used 1 TBSP of my Indian Paprika (which is 4 tsp or even UK 3 tsp) it would be way too hot so I must assume it is only Sweet Paprika, but then there is only 1 green chilli added otherwise.  I have nothing to go on as a guide to how this should be regarding chilli heat.  This clearly shows the use of his restaurant version of Base Gravy, which his cook from scratch Chicken Balti did not.  There is no full description of exactly how the pre-cooked spinach is done so it's a stab in the dark to try to replicate this, but I think you could get pretty close to what is supposed to be the real Shababs Birmingham Chicken & Spinach Balti if you use Misty Ricardo's version of the Shababs Base Gravy and some form of Indian pre-cooked spinach.  I'll definitely be giving this a try and I have one serving of base gravy left.

The second Balti is demonstrated by Latif and there are 2 interesting things in this Chicken Tikka Balti.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZLFHYpHsuQ

He clearly states that when it comes to adding the spices, he would normally use his mixed powder. Instead he breaks it down and uses stated quantities of single spice powders.  This could be his 5 spice Mixed Powder.    He uses Balti paste.  Yes indeed, and he shows a big bottle of commercial Patak's Balti Paste, but he then says he makes his own using yogurt and spices (undisclosed) and uses this in the dish instead. We don't know what this is and using different paste will obviously give different results.  Anyway, I'll need to fire up the tandoor to cook a bit of Tikka to try this one out.

There are of course many similarities in ingredients, but perhaps not the quantities used (eg; capsicum) but to me these 2 dishes illustrate the difference between the Birmingham Balti and the BIR Balti.

[Bob-A-Job]

...he would normally use his mixed powder. Instead he breaks it down and uses stated quantities of single spice powders....
He uses Balti paste.  Yes indeed, and he shows a big bottle of commercial Patak's Balti Paste, but he then says he makes his own using yogurt and spices (undisclosed) and uses this in the dish instead.

I have long since lost any interest in someone (2nd link) who is trying to instruct me in anything and says they normally use (A) but you can use x+y+z to make it instead.  Mix Powders for example, all invariably use Curry Powder but then what is in the Curry Powder mix has been a discussion before.  We aren't all about to go down that Rabbit hole again of what is in a Curry Powder and in what proportions.

When they (Chef's) say they are using a particular product, like a custom Paste or a family recipe for Garam Masala etc, to create the product they are trying to endorse, they can't (to my mind) then be vague about it and suggest a different product and imply you will get the same result.  Surely it is the exact result they are trying to demonstrate that we want to achieve? Am I being too critical and they are just really trying to show me how to cook onions and boil water?

I have watched a few and as soon as I see this, I just write-off anything else that chef might have uploaded or be broadcasting... 'Fool me once..'

(cynical) BAJ

[Kashmiri Bob]

Your links are a good comparison between Pakistani and Bangladeshi style balti livo.  Following George's review of Latifs I looked up their curry house menu.  They apparently make their own "secret" blend of sweet and spicy balti paste. 

Was thinking back to when I did deliveries for a local Bangladeshi TA.  The balti wasn't their most popular offering on the menu, but they still sold a load of it.  A basic curry with a good dollop of balti paste.  Recall talking to the owner about it and that the Birmingham balti was different.  Yes, he said, that's Pakistani cooking, they do it different to us.  He showed me a jar of the paste they used and pointed at the label saying balti.  He then pointed at a pan (with a curry underway) and said, balti.  Not Pataks then?  I asked.  He replied, smiling, no, Patak's is the best, but it's way too expensive.

Echo Bob's thoughts on channels where descriptions are vague.  Another one I am wary of is where the chef keeps saying we are just going to do it the "easy way".

Yes, the Shababs Balti chicken and spinach does look good.  I am getting along nicely with the Misty balti base.  Made Balti chicken and mushroom with it last night; will post a couple of pics later today.  It's top notch Birmingham balti.  Whilst I can't compare it yet with an actual Shababs-made balti (not botched), I am fairly confident the Shababs balti recipe is also nailed.  I suspect the paprika is used mainly to add colour/sweetness.   

Last night's cooking didn't go entirely to plan.  I may have had one too many Cobra's.  Managed to overload the pan with oil (and gravy) so had to do a fair amount of spooning off; first time I have needed to do this.  The spoon-off went into a TA container.  The result looked very familiar.  A dead-ringer for the one I binned.  I suspect all it needs is a few bits of chicken, a CS of mustard oil (or similar) and a good handful of kasoori methi stirred in, to finish it off.  Somewhat worrying me thinks.

Rob         

     

[George]

Another one I am wary of is where the chef keeps saying we are just going to do it the "easy way".

That's a favourite expression in Latif's videos. It's so incredibly irritating and a huge turn-off. As for Latif, given the restaurant curry I tried was so bad, it's hard to imagine how it will be even worse after being 'simplified' (i.e. dumbed-down) for the video.

[livo]

I agree BAJ, that it's pretty annoying when you think you're about to see and learn something, only to find that you're actually not.  Pretty pointless really, but there are still useful snippets of information to be learned from these masked videos.  For instance, it's interesting that Latif's balti paste is yoghurt based.  Anyway, I've asked the questions. Let's wait and see if there are answers forthcoming.

On the other hand, what we're learning from Shababs appears to be the full picture.

I've just cooked a new batch of the Misty Ricardo Shababs balti gravy.  This time I used sweet (non heating) paprika and I removed the whole spices.  I used the last of my spicy batch to make the Chicken and Spinach Balti.  Home grown spinach pre-cooked with onion, ginger, garlic, spices and yoghurt.  The Balti is a winner.  I've put it in the fridge for tomorrow's dinner and I'll be making Mrs L a Chicken spinach and shitake mushroom balti using the new gravy.

[livo]

Searching through the Balti hits on Youtube is a bit like a Trash and Treasure yard sale.  A lot of rubbish and then a gem.

If the Birmingham Balti is based on the Pakistani dish then this could be it.  This is in Hindi / Urdu and is presented by a lady by the name of Sehar Syed, 9 November 2015. It has ingredients listed in English which is really helpful.  There are many similarities in ingredients to the cook from fresh versions previously discussed and the cooking process and sequence is pretty well the same. There are a few differences though, one of which is a feature in Latif's Balti, and that is yogurt.  The other things different are that she uses chicken on the bone, also the addition of Cream at the end as well as Lemon Juice and it is garnished with flash fried Green Chillis and slices of Ginger Root.  It is cooked in a Balti Pan on a home gas cooker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0U5T4H6nw&t=451s

The ingredient list.
1 Chicken cut into curry pieces
2 Tomatoes chopped
1 Onion chopped
1 cup Yogurt
1 TBSP Red Chilli Powder  (I would experiment with this but it is for a whole chicken.)
1 TBSP Ground Coriander
1/2 tsp Turmeric
1/2 tsp Garam Masala (listed as all spice but pretty sure it's GM.)
1 TBSP Kasuri Methi
1/2 TBSP Ground Cumin
1/2 TBSP Salt
3-4 TBSP Cream
1 TBSP Garlic and Ginger chopped
4-5 Green Chilli (used in the initial and garnish stages)
Ginger slices (garnish)
2-3 TBSP Lemon Juice (although I can only see half a lemon she pours juice from a bowl.)
1/2 cup Vegetable Oil
Handful of chopped fresh Coriander (garnish not listed).

The cooking sequence is pretty well standard with spices added at 2 stages.  I see no reason why this couldn't be adapted to use boneless chicken or even using a base gravy approach.  I'll be giving this a try.

[livo]

Lamb Balti at home.

I cooked this one last night to have with the remnants of the Chicken and Spinach Baltis.  I managed to buy 3 price-reduced easy carve legs of lamb the other day. I gave one to my daughter and her partner, froze one and baked the other last night for the family.  They are over eating my Balti experiments, so I cut the top end off it before putting it in the oven.  Probably about 1 lb or 450g.  It was a 2 kg leg and I took just under 1/4 of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW-1hMiHC8U&t=21s

The video says "without Base Gravy" but I made a few modifications to allow using MR's Shababs gravy.  I just used less onion and tomato and substituted base gravy for the water.  I also started it out with some reclaimed oil from my last lamb pre-cook mixed with butter ghee 50/50 and I added about a TBSP of my home made Balti Paste.  First stages were cooked in an open stove-top aluminium pressure cooker, then the lid was put on for 30 minutes under pressure.  Final ingredients were then added and I simmered if for about 20 minutes.  Delicious, thick, meaty, fall-apart tender Lamb Balti.