Topic: Balti

[livo]

Is this the from scratch one?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiXF_TG1_8I&t=188s&ab_channel=TheBaltiBrothers

Looks like a total fail from the off, imo:

Rob

Yes. That is the other "From Scratch" version.  I have to agree with you in that when I first watched it I thought it was way off and I was suspicious of how this guy cooked. No preparation, cutting things up as he was cooking, clumsy, etc.  However, in further research I twigged that it is almost identical to Chef Zaf Hussain's Shababs Balti Chicken (from scratch). 

The thing is though, apparently this is how a Balti is cooked. Fresh ingredients, high heat, thin steel bowl, etc etc. and I can tell you, that it makes a nice dish.  Try it and see for yourself, but remember it is not a BIR curry so don't expect it to be a CTM or a Madras.

[livo]

Santa, you are more than likely, or let's say definitely, correct in stating that a busy Balti House like Shababs or Rishton would be cooking their dishes using a base gravy. The fact that Chef Zaf Hussain can be seen in the Andy Munroe / Misty Ricardo video preparing a 50kg onion gravy would pretty well assure this to be the case. However, both Chef Zaf Hussain and Chef Hussain Rashid have provided cook from scratch recipes for Balti Chicken which are almost identical.  The idea of a base gravy is to provide a head start towards achieving the same "single serve" presentation in a fast paced, high output setting.  So the base gravy in this instance should essentially contain almost everything that can go into the Balti in preparation for fast cooking. Note: The single serve cook is pretty quick anyway.

The confusion for me lies in the fact that Misty Ricardo's take on Chef Zaf's base gravy is more spiced when compared to his stand alone version.  I like the single serve dish as it is, so I could very easily adjust the base gravy to suite and mass produce the same dish.  I also like the spiced Misty Ricardo Balti Base Gravy, but it is not the same.  So we have 2 different supposedly "Real Baltis", purportedly from the same chef, that are different??  The Andy Munroe video does not give the recipe for the Shababs Base Gravy but Richard (Misty) was there so we'd have to hope that his recipe is a replica that he's gone on to provide, but this raises the question.  Which one is the REAL BIRMINGHAM BALTI?

Then we have Mick's 100% Clone Balti which is completely different again.  I agree with you that we need more people to try it?  I found it a really good base gravy but I needed to add other flavourings to it.

Let's look at the "From Scratch Balti Chicken" and compare Shababs with Rishton ingredient by ingredient: 

Shababs : Rishton.

Oil  4 TBSP : 4 TBSP  (Shababs says vegetable, Rishton states Rapeseed)

Fresh ingredients.
Tomato  1 : 2 (size variation? we can see what Rishton use but not Shababs. They say a medium one.)
Onion 1 : 1 (Shababs says a small one, Rishton says a large one. Subjective)
Green Chilli 2 : 2  (The same for both.)
Garlic and Ginger Shababs use 1 TBSP of puree. Rishton uses fresh 2 - 4 cloves of garlic and 2" piece of ginger.
Chicken Breast 1 breast fillet : 400g (Size of an single chicken breast can vary from 300g up to 500 g over here.)

Spices
Paprika (Shababs) / Kashmiri Chilli Powder (Rishton).  Each recipe uses 1 tsp of one or the other.  It is my experience that Indian Paprika is the same as KRC powder.  I would call this the same or use it as a way to control chilli heat.
Kasuri Methi 1 tsp : 1 pinch (I can easily pinch 1 tsp methi. Call it the same.)
Turmeric 1 tsp: 1/4 TBSP (Over here our TBSP is 20ml and our tsp is 5ml, so the same for me.)
Salt Pinch : To Taste  (Call it the same as you can vary to your own liking.)
Garam Masala Pinch : 1/4 TBSP  (Why would you give measurements in quarter Tablespoon?)
Cumin powder 1 tsp : nil (This spice is omitted from the Rishton recipe.)

Herbs
Coriander 1 TSBP : 1 Sprig

So there they are.  With the exception of Cumin they have all the same ingredients.  Quantities of tomato, onion and chicken may or may not be very close and there are subjective sizes given and the difference between 1 chicken breast and 400 g is unknown.  For all intents and purposes these recipes are the same.  The cooking method is the same so these 2 recipes for a "Real Balti Chicken" from 2 Birmingham Balti Houses must surely give us an understanding of what to expect.

Now, if you look at Misty Ricardo's take on the Shababs Balti Chicken to the final cook, you'll see a lot of similarity.  The notable difference is that the base gravy has green and black cardamoms, cassia bark, cloves and tej patta. These add extra spice flavour that does not appear in the cook alone dishes.  Easily remedied if needed.

Surely these are Birmingham Baltis.  If they're not then there is nowhere to go with this discussion.

[George]

Easiest things first, process of elimination, basic problem solving.

Many thanks. I agree with your suggested approach. I missed the curry culture link before and will now take a look.

[George]

Surely these are Birmingham Baltis.  If they're not then there is nowhere to go with this discussion.

In my opinion, it's all getting too confusing. I have to wonder why I am even contemplating trying to replicate a dish from Shebabs which I only rated as 'half decent'. There are so many other dishes more worthy of R&D time spent by me. For example, in the late 1980s, the best lasagnes I'd ever tasted came from Spaghetti House in London and a hotel in Lagos, Nigeria.  I managed to devise a lasagne which was probably almost as good as either of these and my satisfaction lasted for decades until I tasted a ragu sauce at a hotel on Malta. This was in a different league and I need to see if I can raise my game. In summary, the Maltese lasagne was far better as a lasagne than Shababs Balti Chicken was as a curry.

[Secret Santa]

Very nice work there on the balti comparisons livo. It is indeed intriguing that two different balti houses are showing essentially the same from scratch balti recipes.

However, the simple fact is that they all use base sauce in reality. The cook from scratch method they use in these demos is what they show to dupe the public into thinking that this is how they actually cook their baltis so as to maintain the myth of all fresh ingredients. The real baltis are the ones they serve in the balti houses and those are base sauce baltis. I even have my doubts they use raw chicken in anything other than the demo. I'm sure Misty Ricardo could enlighten us as he saw the whole kitchen.

[livo]

Your probably right Santa.  It's all a mystery to me from where I sit. One day I'll make my way to the place in Sydney that supposedly makes a good balti.  All I can do is cook what the recipes show. So far, they've been enjoyable.

George, it's up to you to decide if you want to cook the dish or not. It's a really easy recipe.

[George]

I even have my doubts they use raw chicken in anything other than the demo.

I agree. I avoid using raw chicken in any BIR type dish. The flavour of the chicken juices can dwarf the indian spicing and ruin everything. As well as taking far longer to cook than almost any BIR or Balti establishment has the time for.

[George]

George, it's up to you to decide if you want to cook the dish or not. It's a really easy recipe.

It's not so easy when I need to take stock of all the spices, for a start. Which are out of date and need replacing? Which have been opened more than a couple of days ago. They will need replacing, too, in order to give the recipe (s) a chance of turning out well. Nevertheless, I will probably proceed.

[livo]

George, unless your spices are a decade old, they'll be fine as they are.  There are 5 commonly used spices plus salt.  If your in the slightest bit concerned about the potency of your existing spices just bump the measures up ever so slightly.  We aren't measuring to the microgram anyway.  Some of my spices are approaching 5 years old, stored in airtight containers in a dark cupboard.  While I can agree that fresh potent spices are better, I've not really noticed any diminished performance.  I suspected my Cassia Bark age (12 months) may have been a contributing factor to my experience with MDB's base gravy, but it turns out this wasn't the case.

As for cooking from raw chicken, there is one diced breast fillet in a hot pan, but if you're concerned you could always part cook it in a boiled stock or water before cutting it into chunks.  I wouldn't go with full BIR pre-cook though as that will change the flavour of the dish and negate any experimental value of your resulting appraisal.  As a next step to improving the dish it may well be worth trying though.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Is this the from scratch one?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiXF_TG1_8I&t=188s&ab_channel=TheBaltiBrothers

Looks like a total fail from the off, imo:

Rob

Yes. That is the other "From Scratch" version.  I have to agree with you in that when I first watched it I thought it was way off and I was suspicious of how this guy cooked. No preparation, cutting things up as he was cooking, clumsy, etc.  However, in further research I twigged that it is almost identical to Chef Zaf Hussain's Shababs Balti Chicken (from scratch). 

The thing is though, apparently this is how a Balti is cooked. Fresh ingredients, high heat, thin steel bowl, etc etc. and I can tell you, that it makes a nice dish.  Try it and see for yourself, but remember it is not a BIR curry so don't expect it to be a CTM or a Madras.

Hi Livo.  Oops! I missed your earlier link to the Balti Bros, apols.  Tend to dismiss anything balti-related unless it involves a base gravy.  The Rishton fresh balti is pretty old.  Almost sure it was tested on here in the past; could have been by Phil.  Phil?  Sure someone checked it out, can't find it.  My memory may be going.  Also, forgive my smugness, but ever since Mick's recipe I'm sticking with full-on balti perfect, as opposed to just a "nice" dish.

Just making Misty Ricardo's Shababs base gravy.  On the bubble; looks promising.  Not sure about the 1 L water (on top of a full can of tomatoes) in the recipe.  Suspect he means 1/2 L, or a perhaps a pint.  Will see how it goes; can always add some more water later if necessary.

Rob