Topic: What is a BIR?

[michaelpratt]

I ask this because in hoping to make a curry equal to or better than our local takeout the whole concept has been homogenized; as if there is a single style to be aspired to.

Is the aim to re-create a narrow form of anglicised Bangladeshi type of food as served in a majority of UK Indian restaurants, or does the definition reach as far as the predominantly Punjabi food of Bradford? Or the South Indian Vegi fare of such as Drummond Street near Euston Station? Or Nepalese, or Balti in Birmingham?

It is almost like people are trying to design a car with no idea if they want a Bentley or a Nissan Micra. I do think that the cuisine we aim to replicate, and the restaurants we all eat in, are too varied for such a catch-all acronym as BIR.

Can you imagine an Indian website that aspired to cook authentic restaurant European food?

A little more investigation in to the origins of the chefs we aspire to copy (are they Swedish or Spanish to carry the analogy on) would give greater insight in to the sometimes subtle (often major) differences of spicing and lead us to a greater insight as to what we are looking for, and then how to cook it as we want it.

(The kid was playing me up, sorry for the rant!)

Keep on cooking

Mike

[Razor]

Hi Mike,

Ok, the acronym BIR, British Indian Restaurant, is a catch all as you rightly say but, how many of these restaurants describe themselves as anything other than Indian.  Very very few advertise the fact that they are Punjabi, Bangladeshi or even Pakistani even though, very few of them are actually Indian.  So they all tend to, or certainly used to, describe themselves as Indian restaurants, hence the acronym.

Secondly, I don't think you can use European food as an example to compare with BIR.  Within European cuisine, you have French, Spanish, Italian, Greek and so on...all bearing little resemblance to each other, whereas BIR food, is in the most part, the same.  Only the quality differs

I can't speak for everyone but, the BIR food that I want to replicate is the standard Indian restaurant fayre that we find up and down the country.  I know that there are regional differences, but that is British regional differences, not Asian subcontinent regional differences.

It is a good point that you make though. BIR has changed over the past 20/30 years, moving from predominantly Bangladeshi, toward Punjabi and Pakistan.  And so has the BIR taste, although I suspect that that, is more to do with commercial methods being introduced rather than the origin of the chef.  I could be wrong though

It will be interesting to see everyone elses view on this.

Good post Mike,

Ray

[michaelpratt]

Hey Ray

You actually re-make my point. The BIR taste IS a Britished (no such word) take on a whole continent's cuisine. Whilst there is a generic BIR taste that we all dream of, or think we know I believe it is different for all of us.

So as the sub-continent has provided us with a diverse selection of chefs (from Finland to Turkey to keep to the analogy) so our own regional tastes have taken this diverse group in different directions.

A curry in Bradford is not the same as one in Birmingham irrespective of the origins of the chef. However a South Indian chef in Bradford would also cook a different meal from a Punjabi
chef in Bradford. There are two variables here. You only need to see the colour of the mint sauce with your bhaji, it changes from city to city. This is doubly regional.

My central point, I guess, is that there is no such thing as BIR. Or rather there there is, but only in the sense that there is a shop down the street that we love, need and cherish when we are hungry. And it is spicy. To bracket it all together under "BIR" is to ignore two massive variables and effectively promotes the lazy generic chefs who just turn out what they think we want to eat. Indo/Pakistani food is better than that.

(And the kid went to sleep, thank God)

Mike

[Razor]

Hi Mike,

A curry in Bradford is not the same as one in Birmingham irrespective of the origins of the chef

This is very true, and it will be different again in Manchester but, a Madras is a Madras nonetheless.  The methods will be different as will the taste but the menu will still say something like "Madras - a dish found in central and Eastern India having a greater proportion of spices, which lend a fiery taste to it's richness"   The descriptions will be very similar even if the tastes are quite different.  Whereas, Swedish meatballs, will be a completely different thing to say British faggots or Spanish meatballs or Italian meat dumplings! 

I do take your point though Mike and maybe the term BIR is not as relevent as it was a few years ago, especially as the chefs are introducing more traditional dishes on the menu.  If this trend continues, then yes, in 20 years, we will probably have Bangladeshi or Punjabi restaurants in their own right.  But as long as these places continue with the standard menu, Madras, Vindaloo, Jalfrezi, CTM, Korma and so on, the tag will stay with them I guess.

Ray

[joshallen2k]

I will go out on a limb and say that BIR by and large from my recollection, is Bangladeshi-made curries adapted to the British palate.

I've had Nepalese, Thali (vegi), and authentic Punjabi and Goan, and none come close to the Bangladeshi "Indian" fare.

-- Josh

[Malc.]

Michael, your right of course. BIR is a very broad term for a subject that we discuss in the main. Here it covers everything from early style cooking to regional variants and take-aways with their fast modern methods.

Since I have been on here, I have taken a much bigger interest in the subject. This had lead me to various topics around the internet and I was quite surprised to read about the differences in styles across the UK.

Without doubt for me at least, BIR means Bangladeshi Indian Restaurant. The upcoming modern trend is more PIR or Punjabi Indian Restaurant. I tend to characterise this as being Old School and New Wave with a third being TIR or Traditional Indian Restaurant, where the food is different to your local high street restaurant. Of course I realise that other styles exist as well.

The Chef form the IG is from Bangladesh. But I don't think that is going to help anyone. Mainly because of these regional variations but also as the old school restaurants like the IG make everything to recipe and one that is theirs. Yes, it may be similar, but those subtle differences will make it stand out on my palette from the rest.

It soon dawned on me that I was going to have a tough time trying to create my favourite IG dishes, without using the important IG recipes. I certainly wouldn't be able to do this using the Kushi Spice Mix and DPR's base for instance.

I suppose the question that begs asking is, how many members here actually know what style of cooking they prefer?

[JerryM]

it's lucky Bangladeshi fits the initials as for me this is quite clearly what BIR stands for.

the imitations are a real annoyance as the differences are quite stark. recently i've started to notice places actually pointing out on their boardings that they are Bangladeshi.

the imitations are not new but are the majority of what are called Indian Restaurants - they have pretty much existed since the start of BIR time.

as for investigating further the chefs and the origens then i'm well interested. i'm not convinced it will produce gain down to what Axe says - the best have their own recipes which are commercially sensitive.