Topic: Which benchmark should we use to measure our curry cooking success?

[George]

In fact it is probably the only curry we really know FOR SURE how the BIR cooks.

If it's so clear, which recipe do you mean?!!

It's good of Jerry to hold up the korma recipe I posted as a contender but, several years after my posting, we became aware, via Maliks webcam and other videos, that many/all places normally start off by 'dry frying' sugar and coconut powder. My recipe doesn't do that, so I'm fairly sure it's not as 'authentic' as it could be. As keen as I am on kormas, I haven't yet revisited that dish, and I must.

I'd sooner spend time perfecting a korma than testing plain chicken curry, but I still think the latter would actually be a better benchmark, as I think CA is suggesting, for a wider variety of more complex dishes.

[jimmy2x]

i think we need a gold standard base, it would make everything else so much easier, whenever korma or madras or chicken curry.

i would enjoy a debate and then a conclusion on this especially from all the more knowledgeable members on here than i ever hope to be.

It would be then so much better for other members here to have a rel authentic starting point.

sorry if this was not your initial thread topic ca and i deviated into this area, but i just feel a benchmrk base is what i personally need to carry me forward.

[Secret Santa]

In fact it is probably the only curry we really know FOR SURE how the BIR cooks.

If it's so clear, which recipe do you mean?!!

The basic recipe George used by both the East takeaway and Maliks. That is, sugar and coconut in huge quantities into the pan (and ground almond in some cases), a couple of ladles of base sauce and a bit later the addition of lots of UHT cream, and boiled down for a few minutes. It really doesn't get any simpler, there's NO technique involved and importantly relies entirely on the base for any 'curryness'.

we became aware, via Maliks webcam and other videos, that many/all places normally start off by 'dry frying' sugar and coconut powder

No George there really is no dry frying of the sugar/coconut to speak of. I can say this with some certainty as I've watched them. They only really just add the two ingredients, SOMETIMES give it a brief stir and SOMETIMES leave it for a while if they're doing other curries at the same time. There really is no intention to caramelise the mix. Indeed, often when they are rushed, I've seen them add the base sauce as the first ingredient, swiftly followed by the coconut and sugar. The dry frying is something of a myth!

plain chicken curry, but I still think the latter would actually be a better benchmark, as I think CA is suggesting, for a wider variety of more complex dishes.

Yes and no. Clearly there are a greater variety of savoury curries than creamy ones, so this would suggest a basic chicken curry as a benchmark would be ideal.

On the other hand even the 'simple' chicken curry involves potentially unknown ( or at least difficult to master) technique and certainly involves at least some added ingredient (spice etc.) at the frying stage which complicates matters.

I would personally prefer a savoury curry as a benchmark as I hate korma but there are too many pitfalls, whereas the korma is 'known', simple, and likely to be eaten and therefore tried by more people.

[George]

Secret Santa - Thank you very much for your very helpful post. It reflects my observations and adds more. I hope I haven't started a 'dry frying' myth. I just assumed there was some intended caramelising if they put all the sugar and coconut in a (dry?) pan over high heat and leave it for many seconds, as often happens. But, if you're right and it tastes the same if the base is added first, then I guess it's more along the same lines as my old recipe, derived heavily from what Ghanna told us.

[Secret Santa]

One thing I also forgot George, it's not even dry frying as they always use a lot of ghee for this dish, and generally for all the creamy dishes. So it's about four or more TBSP of ghee followed by the sugar/coconut mix.

Also, how much sugar have/would you use to make your korma comparable to the BIR variety you are accustomed to?

[George]

Also, how much sugar have/would you use to make your korma comparable to the BIR variety you are accustomed to?

Ah, that's what I'll have to determine by trial and error. As you said, it looks like they add a very unhealthy quantity of sugar and coconut. I'll start with that and work from there. I don't care how unhealthy it is for the occasional dinner party but I've never included BIR dishes (whether bought-in or DIY) in my diet for everyday living. The current kormas I'm accustomed to have lost a lot of their appeal since the 1980s. I don't know if it's me, or a change in the standard dished-out by most BIRs.

As for benchmarks, I don't currently have one for a chicken korma. I wouldn't know where to go, these days, to get a 'reference' version from a BIR.

[JerryM]

no expert on korma for sure. but on these type of dishes ie butter chicken and tikka masala the amount of sugar has clearly increased to the point that most BIR's are really quite inedible. my lad has gone off these dishes from BIR's for this reason. of course it could be just evolution through the BIR menu but even my wife won't eat these sugar dishes from most BIR's (thankfully there are a few good ones left - amazingly the BIR i really rate on most dishes has also fallen into this same trap).

a reduced sugar version would be good - better than BIR i'd say.

ps Secret Santa u've been watching too much video.

[Derek Dansak]

the debate on what base and curry should be used as a benchmark can be answered simply, if we all ask our local bir chef the same question. It would be very interesting to hear their response. The chef at my local has clearly stated madras is the most important dish (the benchmark curry mastered first by novices in his kitchen) , what does the chef at your local bir say? I have a feeling there will be a range of responses, depending on the type of base that restaurant makes. so also try to find out if they use very plain , thin,  low spiced bases (e.g. the kd base) or if they use heavy spiced thick bases, such as ashoka base. it may be that we identify two schools of thought on this age old topic. I am sure most chefs would be happy to discuss this with us. So get asking next time you visit, and we can have some real closure on this issue. as it seems to crop up every 6 months on this forum.

[JerryM]

if we all ask our local bir chef the same question. what's the most important dish (the benchmark curry mastered first by novices in his kitchen

i'll ask - this i think is something they would love to talk about.

ps i end up with the same thinness from every base including ashoka by adding more water if it's too thick