Why are BIR Curries Today Different to Those of Yesteryear?

[joshallen2k]

I can sort of buy into this and sort of not. I was away from the UK for about 5 years before I went back for a visit last spring. I ate at BIRs exclusively for the whole time I was there (ok, maybe an odd kebab thrown in). The taste was exactly as good as I remember, perhaps even better, given 5 years of crap Canadian curries. The best ones I ate were by far my own.

I can sort of understand SS when he says "if I found it I'd know it". But then again 5 years and 20 years are different altogether.

I used to hate sprouts as a kid but now I love em

I still hate sprouts.

[Secret Santa]

It might be part of the reason (i.e. more diverse BIR ownership) but not all, because it implies, nevertheless, that the majority of BIRs are STILL Bangladeshi owned and run.

Yes, but the point I was making is that they are dwindling in number, and their distribution was, and apparently still is, biased towards the South.

[Secret Santa]

I certainly think that the old school guys on the forum are looking for something different to what they're making but perhaps a little less different than they think?

and from currymonster:

If we are comparing curries of today to those we tasted 20 or more years ago isn't it almost guaranteed that they will taste slightly different today?

I don't know if you are saying this to wind us old timers up or you actaully believe this.

Anyway the answer is simple, you are both wrong!

I still make recipes from different cuisines that I started making in my early teens. They taste, smell, and look the same now as they did then, no difference at all.

So, unless there is something specific to curries that our senses of taste and smell detect differently with time, then the large difference I detect between the curries of today and those of yesteryear are real, and not the ravings of a middle aged curry addict!   ;D  :

[Cory Ander]

the large difference I detect between the curries of today and those of yesteryear are real, and not the ravings of a middle aged curry addict!   ;D  :

Are there any other reasons (other than those mentioned so far) that you think are responsible for this change in BIR curries over the years SS?

[Secret Santa]

Are there any other reasons (other than those mentioned so far) that you think are responsible for this change in BIR curries over the years SS?

Not really, other than those I've mentioned in this and other threads. But that's sort of the point isn't it, if I knew what ALL the reasons for the change were, I wouldn't be on this forum griping about the sad demise of the taste and smell, I'd be cooking it!

[JerryM]

i feel spice mix has a part to play.

i'm just getting to point when i can experiment a little on this.

i find i quite like bassar (not in every type of dish for sure though). in fact in some dishes ie Kashmiri when i've tried mix powder in place of bassar i've been real disappointed.

i need to perhaps try bassar on it's own in madras. i don't think bassar is it but something along those lines is needed along with the other observations.

i can see it (the 70's curry) and i know time & brain will have distorted to an extent. the last place i know of has finally succumbed to the wider market appeal. like all things we will perhaps just have to wait 10 yrs or so until fashion returns. until then - bahar it is.

[commis]

Hi

Maybe to get a better idea of  yesteryear curies we should consider the migration from the Indian continent and not just the ownership of curry houses, eg. partitioning of India led to Kasmiri guests. Bengal Independence led to Bengali guests. Also traditional dishes from these areas,(you don't get much fresh water fish in BIR do you). The question raised by SS on another thread about a recipes containing yogurt and nuts about being Balti, is an excellent example. As Mongol influences do exist in Northwest Frontier cooking. Also what spices were comonly available at an affordable price, these early BIR meals were cheap eats ,not fine dining in the whole.

Regards

[JerryM]

commis,

interesting thoughts.

BIR's for sure were cheap eats. i had very little money and probably eat out 3 times a week. i can't do that now.

stripping back on the spice is key for me too. there was certainly no shortage of what was available. what was available is hard to pick out but way off what is today.

the only history i have is from the book, "Curry A tale of cooks and conquerors". this suggests the Bangladeshi were the 1st curry houses. i feel these are my 70's curry.

the book does not cover your observations which sit well with me too. i think these must essentially have been the starting's of the 90's curries (i did not think curries changed in the 80's or 90's in most places but for sure new establishments started to appear ie Pakistani as opposed to Indian and no doubt in reality Kashmir, Bengali, Balti etc).

nb they were never called Pakistani though - i think tandoori was popular.

[Panpot]

Great Thread guys and thanks CA for kicking it off in such detail. I was taken to the Ashoka by Charan Gill who introduced me to Sanjay Majhu who gave permission for the Chef to speak with me and show me the ropes. As mentioned on another thread I am now getting access to another shortly. Charan and the owner of the BIR I will visit later this month are Sikhs though not sure if their families come from the same part of India. Way back in the 70s many of the BIRs in Glasgow had the term INDO-PAK in their title though not sure you will find that anywhere today. The Shish Mahal opened in the early sixties and one of the great restaurants in Glasgow over the last 50 years and still a gem today cooked "the very beat of food in the classic Pakistani tradition" taken from the back of the book first published in 1982. Personally I would love to taste again the Chicken Buriani served with medium sauce that was my favourite from the Kohinoor across Gibson Street from the Shish Mahal. I suspect my taste buds and all the pointers from CA and others contribute to it being unlikely but it is a wonderful memory. Over the festive season  I had some friends round for a curry night and cooked entirely from the Ashoka threads and my guests were delighted as I am with everything I got from the guys at The Quay. Cheers PP

[commis]

Hi

Jerry M, this goes to my point about history not ownership. Pakistan formation which included East Bengal in 1947, then Bangladeshi independence in 1955, leaves a long time between the two likely migrations to the UK .As for availability rationing went on long after the war Any new settler will try to some extent to create the food of his home land but is restricted to what is available. Curry houses I have used in the past that were owned and run by Bagladeshies did not eat from there own menu but Pakistani people would but only the starters. They used to do large mixed starter platers when asked YUM. Asked if they would do home style (Bengali) they would need 24 hrs to get things together (fish). Looking at Bengali traditional recipes leads me to consider that this possible second wave came into then almost took over the BIR trade.

Regards