Topic: Are we there yet.

[Secret Santa]

I can honestly say that I can produce the taste and smell of a BIR curry...I'm sniffing it on my shirt now, in  fact!   

Really!?

I find that hard to believe, unless you're leaving something out in the recipes that you've posted recently.

They're nice curries, and I like them, but they aren't even close to having the taste or smell that I'm after. They match current BIR standards but, that's little comfort to me as I find current BIR standards lacking.

How can I explain this?

Imagine that you own a mini car. It's a great little car and it does everything you want it to. I on the other hand have owned a Jaguar XJS. Now there's no doubting that they both get you from A to B, they both have four wheels, and they keep you warm and dry on your journey. The problem (we pretend) is that you've never seen a jaguar XJS and I, because of my lack of engineering skill, can't build one to show you just what you're missing.

So, I have the double frustration of not only not being able to drive the Jag any more because it isn't available, but I also can't build one either, to show you, because of my lack of knowledge.

That for me is the difference between new BIR curries, which your recipes match, and old style BIR curries.

So when you say you can reproduce the taste and smell of BIR curries, I can only repeat what you once said in response to one of my posts...B*ll*cks!   

[Cory Ander]

So when you say you can reproduce the taste and smell of BIR curries, I can only repeat what you once said in response to one of my posts...B*ll*cks!   

How can I explain this?

Well, face it SS, given that you haven't even seen my car, never mind driven it, you're really not in a very good position to tell are you!   

[Mikka1]

Sad...........

It's about food.

I'm not interested in who thinks who is the best? I'm interested in who wants to talk about Indian food cooking and how it could get better!?

[Cory Ander]

I'm interested in who wants to talk about Indian food cooking and how it could get better!?

Ummmm, but Mikka, it IS about food!  It's about defining "the taste" (and SS appears to be saying it is different things to different people...and it's changed over the years....and I agree) and about obtaining that "taste".

It is also consistent with EminJ's original question about whether anyone can achieve that "taste".  Alas, few of us are really able to adequately verify what others claim...unless we sit down and eat what they produce!

So where's the problem? 

[Mikka1]

I agree CA.
Looking at pictures and recipes is one thing. Seeing a video is another. Actually tasting someone else's efforts is the corker isn't it.

I wish I were nearer some of you. It would be fun to get together and hammer out what each of us like and work on the math to get it done. Oh well.  ;D

It is also consistent with EminJ's original question about whether anyone can achieve that "taste".  Alas, few of us are really able to adequately verify what others claim...unless we sit down and eat what they produce!

So where's the problem? 

[Derek Dansak]

I used to worry (how sad  ;D ) that we would not get the real bir taste. however recently i tried about 10 different madras from all the ta,s in my area to work out how varied real bir madras can be. i concluded that many are well within our reach. I also concluded that many bir produce almost the same product(madras) , with the same flavour, and hard to tell apart. its just a matter of time until we stumble upon the right recipe to get that subtle tomato tangy taste which seems to be present in real bir madras. the average bir madras is nothing extrordinary. many i tried were little more than a standard tomatoey onion , pepper style base (the old KD base)  with light coriander spicing, and a hint of garlic. i think the safron base may have an inbuilt issue, which is that it is not good, at producing a nice underlying tomato flavour in a curry. i believe the original KD base from her older book is much better for a nice tomato bir madras flavor. over xmas i will test this theory, that the kd base is indeed better at tomatoey style madras. the safron base is very good at all other curries, but not madras i believe. I am sure in the next 1 to 3 years we will be much nearer to our goal. I know i am not that far off now, producing curry which is often fresher and more tasty than real TA's. but not identical i must admit.

[emin-j]

I used to worry (how sad  ;D ) that we would not get the real bir taste. however recently i tried about 10 different madras from all the ta,s in my area to work out how varied real bir madras can be. i concluded that many are well within our reach. I also concluded that many bir produce almost the same product(madras) , with the same flavour, and hard to tell apart. its just a matter of time until we stumble upon the right recipe to get that subtle tomato tangy taste which seems to be present in real bir madras. the average bir madras is nothing extrordinary. many i tried were little more than a standard tomatoey onion , pepper style base (the old KD base)  with light coriander spicing, and a hint of garlic. i think the safron base may have an inbuilt issue, which is that it is not good, at producing a nice underlying tomato flavour in a curry. i believe the original KD base from her older book is much better for a nice tomato bir madras flavor. over xmas i will test this theory, that the kd base is indeed better at tomatoey style madras. the safron base is very good at all other curries, but not madras i believe. I am sure in the next 1 to 3 years we will be much nearer to our goal. I know i am not that far off now, producing curry which is often fresher and more tasty than real TA's. but not identical i must admit.

Nice one DD , unless you have a side by side Curry tasting session I don't think there's any reliable way of comparing home cooked Curries to T/A Curries.

[Derek Dansak]

i agree mate. it takes a brave man to do a side by side comparison ! or a foolish man !!  ;D if i ever make a good replica, i will know instantly. it will be one of lifes great moments 

[chriswg]

I'm 99.9% sure our bases are as good as the average BIR. Lots of people here have tasted a restaurant base and reported it to be very similar to ours. Essentially no matter how many videos you watch or recipes you read they are almost all based around boiling up onions with a bit of extra veg and adding spices. The result is usually a thin lightly spiced onion soup. The key is in the cooking. If it was easy everyone would do it. The truth is most of the head chefs have been cooking curries for 20 - 30 years and will have been learning about spices since the age of about 3. They all cook by eye and instinctively know when to add which spice or garlic without burning it all. When I add garlic to hot oil it is usually black in about 30 seconds and needs to be binned and I start again. I'm not convinced there will ever be a Eurika moment when everthing suddenly comes together. I think practice makes perfect and most of us need about another 15 years practice.

[emin-j]

I'm 99.9% sure our bases are as good as the average BIR. Lots of people here have tasted a restaurant base and reported it to be very similar to ours. Essentially no matter how many videos you watch or recipes you read they are almost all based around boiling up onions with a bit of extra veg and adding spices. The result is usually a thin lightly spiced onion soup. The key is in the cooking. If it was easy everyone would do it. The truth is most of the head chefs have been cooking curries for 20 - 30 years and will have been learning about spices since the age of about 3. They all cook by eye and instinctively know when to add which spice or garlic without burning it all. When I add garlic to hot oil it is usually black in about 30 seconds and needs to be binned and I start again. I'm not convinced there will ever be a Eurika moment when everthing suddenly comes together. I think practice makes perfect and most of us need about another 15 years practice.

chriswg , I think you would need to find what you consider your favourite T/A then use their Base and Curry recipe exactly to stand any chance of replicating it , I do believe you can not mix different Base's with different Curry Recipes for the best results.