Topic: achieving toffee, how to get the hit

[Derek Dansak]

Hi Jerry. by toffee taste i mean that delicous almost sweet taste you get sometimes. its in the oil as well.  i always know when my curry has turned out good, if i can leave it to cool for an hour, come back and it still tastes sweet and moorish. at the right temperature, and using the right technique, the garlic, tom puree, spices, pepper slithers, onion, and possibly a bit of methi,seem to combine to make a toffee taste in the oil. in my opinion anyway. i am sure i get it more since going to gas. simply because its so hot. the technique of adding extra water and reducing may help get this taste. but you know that already ).  I believe an overly strong or thick base may reduce this taste. so base is important.  its seems to happen much more with decent fresh base. frozen base is convenient, but never as good. I am with Bruce on that one ! ;D

[JerryM]

DD,

i'm happy to stick with toffee too as the describing word - i can't get any better single word for it either. i'd add that i don't have to wait for it to cool - i'm sure the water has a big part - i'm able to have mine very thin and for defo has to be fresh. i get a lot of smoke too - this is also important although i've not worked out why.

forgot to add - i can't actually smell the toffee smell anymore (since leaving my 3kw kitchen gas hob) although i know it must be happening - the smoke overpowers.

[Razor]

Hi guys,

Im currently going through the CA recipes using his "masala" and "base".  This toffee smell that you guys talk about, I pressume you mean the "spice hit" at the frying stage?

I can't really say that it smells like toffee to me but I think I know what you mean.  To be honest, I've tried fast cooking and slowboat cooking with CA's recipes with identical results at the end, that being, an excellent finished dish, with the right amount of oil, and that sweet BIR smell and taste.

With that said then, I'm convinced that we don't need to achieve the "toffee" smell to get the taste.  I also dont believe super high heat and rapid frying is key either.  If you look at the burners in a BIR kitchen when they are on full blast, yes, the flames wrap around the pan, but actually how much flame is hitting the base of the pan?  I'm sure that we have all seen the chef crank up the heat, add the oil, garlic and ginger, then leave it un-attended for a good 2-3 minutes.  Try that on your own hob and I guarantee burnt garlic and ginger.

As for frying spices to release their oils, you should, without a doubt, add them dry to the oil OFF the heat, then return to a low flame.  Again, no nead for nuclear rated burners here!

Frying/evaporating the base, a chef's spoonful at a time, is for me, where tha BIR taste is achieved.  That is when I smell the familiar BIR aroma that you get when you walk into the restaurant.

Just my 10 penneth of course ;D

Ray

[Mikka1]

But your nose is what you eat in matter of terms. If something you prepare doesn't smell very good you just ain't gunna eat it.

I think this is way more about content than anything else to be honest Razor. That and how you deal with meat, spices and oils.

I found the same too by the way. I hope some folks don't go opening restaurants because covers will not last long. Much to learn yet.

Best.

[emin-j]

I agree with Razor on the ' not so high heat ' that the BIR Chef's use , even when they turn up the heat the flames are very lazy and when you see how long they sometimes leave a Curry unattended that cannot be that high a heat IMO 

[Sverige]

Guys I had a TA from my local last week,it has an open kitchen and you can see clearly what the chef is doing though not all of the ingredients. As you would expect the use lots of short cuts like pre cooked rice that they stick in microwave to heat, pretty poor chicken ticka and precooked chicken held in what seems to be hot water as it comes out of the pan pure white. Anyway he puts in a little oil and what must be ghee then in goes the garlic/ginger paste, the tomato puree and whatever his spice mix is and he stirs it in with the back of the spoon. He then leaves it on what seems to be high heat for a few minutes. I feel it will surely burn but he seems relaxed with this approach the as he adds the meat followed by the base he begins the movement and stirring but in this case no flame though others times there can be it doesn't seem to matter too much. he produces acceptable TA though I would want freshly cooked ticka in a good BIR. PP

I've also seen chefs leave a pan with spices being fried on super high heat for what seems like an amazing long time. I feel sure I would burn my spices if I try the same thing. Makes no sense to me unless the water in the tomato puree is protecting the spices.

[Madrasandy]

Try it sverige, its all in the technique, which comes from practice. Until you burn your spices how do you know whats over or under cooked. If its burnt bin it , start again until you get the taste you search for

[JerryM]

Sverige,

may be of help. you will certainly know when spice is burnt - tastes horrible. its also very easy to do.

i use the 2 methods of spice frying depending on how i feel. on the same heat i count 11 secs for the dry method (frying spice in oil, burnt at 15 secs) compared with the liquid method at 1.5 mins where i add 1 off chef spoon of liquid (for me base 60 ml, the puree is also in the pan).

[littlechilie]

Hi all,Just to add Spices don't really burn in oil they cook, Spice burns when they sticks to the bottom of a hot pan, it's the pan that burns the spice not the oil

[sp]

halogen hob + onions + lots of oil + tomato puree = caramalisation and toffee aroma.  Try just frying the tomato puree in oil and you should get that smell too