Topic: Change in cooking technique

[PaulP]

I've often wondered about the exact cooking sequence for these BIR imitations with some recipes saying cook the garlic first and others saying onion/pepper first then garlic etc. Like others on this forum every curry is a bit of an experiment - otherwise no progress would be made.

I've now made the following changes to my cooking technique:-

If using Onions/Peppers cook them nice and slow in a separate fry pan.

Next I dump this lot into my carbon steel wok.

Then I add about 200 ml base, salt, spice mix, garlic, ginger, chili and tom paste and methi all at once.

I start heating on medium constantly stirring and reducing the base until the oil shows through and most of the water has gone from the base.

Next (cooking for 2 here) I add another 300 ml of base and raw chicken (if using) and simmer away for 10 to 12 minutes reducing the sauce a little more and doing the final seasoning.

I find that the reduction of the base in stage one with the constant stirring and scraping back in of the dried out base creates some of that smokey taste we are looking for.

Also, this method seems quite foolproof and it is hard to burn anything using this technique.

My curries have definitely improved using this method and are slightly easier to make.

[JerryM]

PaulP,

we don't cover this subject enough for me.

i call this sort of "all in" approach "slowboat" and having tried it a few times i've been real amazed how well it works.

on the onions/peppers i've had my best results pre frying them. it's just a bit of hassle for small amounts.

i've wrestled too on the garlic / onion timing. i used to pre cook the onion which made that it did not matter. i now cook from raw and find it better to fry the onion 1st before the garlic as otherwise the garlic has a tendency to burn. i think in a garlic/ginger paste it's less of an issue but i still do the onion 1st as otherwise they don't cook through enough.

if i intend using garlic (slithers) i always pre fry and then add with the base.

i too find the scraping important not only on keeping the pan clean (i only wash at the end of cooking) but is good on the taste front.

[PaulP]

Hi JerryM,

To be honest I discovered this by chance. The guy called Curry Barking Mad (Mick) posted something interesting on the "other forum" which caught my attention.

He was lucky enough to get a Pakistani chef from a reputedly good TA into his curry shed for a full-on base, spice mix and curry session. The chef was called Taz.

The base recipe was quite simple - just onions, some green pepper, some tinned toms, fresh garlic, fresh ginger, turmeric powder, whole cumin seeds and whole corriander seeds. Nothing else, so quite a simple base. Taz's technique is to make the base quite oil-heavy and at the cooking stage he doesn't add any extra oil, just the oil in the base is sufficient to cook with.

His spice mix is similar to the BE one but with 8% more turmeric and 8% less corriander but otherwise remarkably similar.

I made the base and spice mix and followed the recipe with some scepticism as I thought the base was too simple. But like others who tried (including CBM himself) I was very pleasantly surprised by the results.

Anyway, I wondered if it would work with a more complex base and I still had quite a lot of SnS 2008 base in the freezer.

I knew I would need more oil as the Taz base has 100% more oil than the SnS one but by using the 3 tablespoons of oil I cooked the onions in I reckon it balanced out the oil to match the Taz method.

The results of cooking 2 curries using the SnS 2008 base but with the Taz mix-it-all-up and reduce technique have produced my best curries to date.

I'm not saying this is the way to go for everybody and every curry as I think Taz has a unique approach but it does work and works well.

Another thing I have learned: In the past I was wary of too much turmeric and of cumin dominating the taste. The Taz base did taste quite strong with cumin and both his base and spice mix contain a fair proportion of turmeric, more than I would normally expect to use but the taste was spot on.

I still need to decide which produces the best results for me i.e. the Taz approach with SnS base or with the Taz base - they are both good, very good in fact.

This Taz thing is a bit of a distraction as I was going to try the CA base and spice mix but I will try that one next as I'm running out of base now.

[JerryM]

PaulP,

real interesting stuff. what u say all holds good for me for the slowboat method - a high oil in the base would not work for me using my stove. i have to add oil (& water) to cook the spices (and i found previously having a high proportion in the base does not release in time for it to be any use - i end up with too much on the surface of the cooked dish). i aim for max 10% oil in the base (based on the original chopped onion volume ~ typ 100ml in 800g onion)

i changed my outlook on turmeric following the BE post. i now rate it very highly and don't hold back on it's use (in base and spice mix). i'm still cautious on cumin though (even after the ashoka base). i still work on 3:1 coriander: cumin as a minmum and ideally 4:1.

the CA base is very good (it passes the threshold for me as do quite a few others). the AKA spice mix is well worth a try - i like the extra garlic & ginger powder and cardamom seed. Secret Santa's suggestion of using a little all purpose seasoning works well too. i now use both.

i've tried the "slowboat" method now and again when i've been working on plain curry sauce - suspecting it's what BIR's do for this very simple dish. for home kitchen cooking i totally agree slowboat works. i can tell the difference though with the hot "toffee" approach.

[Mikka1]

Sad to say this but this is my experience too. I know we all see the flashing of pans and instant additions but it is after all basically a stew. 7 MINUTE DINNER!

Green pepper yet again rings bells as does the high content in chillies. Someone on here said "Simple". Yeah it is............. very simple. Things are relative aren't they? Add less cook for longer, add more cook for less. But by an large the end result in this case is largely the same.

I consider myself a good general cook. At least I've had no complaints but then they would say that wouldn't they. 
Loved this post PP. Makes absolute sense to me, thank you.

Hi JerryM,

To be honest I discovered this by chance. The guy called Curry Barking Mad (Mick) posted something interesting on the "other forum" which caught my attention.

He was lucky enough to get a Pakistani chef from a reputedly good TA into his curry shed for a full-on base, spice mix and curry session. The chef was called Taz.

The base recipe was quite simple - just onions, some green pepper, some tinned toms, fresh garlic, fresh ginger, turmeric powder, whole cumin seeds and whole corriander seeds. Nothing else, so quite a simple base. Taz's technique is to make the base quite oil-heavy and at the cooking stage he doesn't add any extra oil, just the oil in the base is sufficient to cook with.

His spice mix is similar to the BE one but with 8% more turmeric and 8% less corriander but otherwise remarkably similar.

I made the base and spice mix and followed the recipe with some scepticism as I thought the base was too simple. But like others who tried (including CBM himself) I was very pleasantly surprised by the results.

Anyway, I wondered if it would work with a more complex base and I still had quite a lot of SnS 2008 base in the freezer.

I knew I would need more oil as the Taz base has 100% more oil than the SnS one but by using the 3 tablespoons of oil I cooked the onions in I reckon it balanced out the oil to match the Taz method.

The results of cooking 2 curries using the SnS 2008 base but with the Taz mix-it-all-up and reduce technique have produced my best curries to date.

I'm not saying this is the way to go for everybody and every curry as I think Taz has a unique approach but it does work and works well.

Another thing I have learned: In the past I was wary of too much turmeric and of cumin dominating the taste. The Taz base did taste quite strong with cumin and both his base and spice mix contain a fair proportion of turmeric, more than I would normally expect to use but the taste was spot on.

I still need to decide which produces the best results for me i.e. the Taz approach with SnS base or with the Taz base - they are both good, very good in fact.

This Taz thing is a bit of a distraction as I was going to try the CA base and spice mix but I will try that one next as I'm running out of base now.

[joshallen2k]

I remember reading this post a few weeks back but didn't comment at the time.

Two points come to mind.

First, one of my big "a-ha" moments in curry cookery was the frying of the spices in oil (and depending on the curry, garlic, ginger and tom puree) for bit and then adding the base. On high heat, when that base hits the pan - you know you have a serious curry. Bunging in everything to cook together, I can't help but think it would detract from the chemical effect that goes on with the method I described above. I'm not doubting your findings at all, just making a point of what I've noticed (and never looked back upon).

Second, though, is the question of the BIR chef on the other site (which I've been to a small handful of times). I find the layout confusing (for someone inexperienced with the site I guess) and whenever I think I find something, it tells me I need to upgrade my membership (i.e. pay). That's another topic.. But anyway, I am curious to know if the BIR chef's input has enabled the members there to get any further ahead.

Any input?

-- Josh

[Mikka1]

Very good post indeed Josh. On the bottom bit first. I pay for a takeaway (sometimes) not web access and talk. I wonder too Josh about that? People have to read and digest first of all wouldn't they?

Totally. You know you have it within just about 2 minutes, if you don't it can be remedied but that's about the point I feel also. I was thinking of taking a tub of grub round to my local since they asked after it but what would that prove even if they said it was good?  ;D

Its safe to say we can all cook very well judging from replies.

I remember reading this post a few weeks back but didn't comment at the time.

Two points come to mind.

First, one of my big "a-ha" moments in curry cookery was the frying of the spices in oil (and depending on the curry, garlic, ginger and tom puree) for bit and then adding the base. On high heat, when that base hits the pan - you know you have a serious curry. Bunging in everything to cook together, I can't help but think it would detract from the chemical effect that goes on with the method I described above. I'm not doubting your findings at all, just making a point of what I've noticed (and never looked back upon).

Second, though, is the question of the BIR chef on the other site (which I've been to a small handful of times). I find the layout confusing (for someone inexperienced with the site I guess) and whenever I think I find something, it tells me I need to upgrade my membership (i.e. pay). That's another topic.. But anyway, I am curious to know if the BIR chef's input has enabled the members there to get any further ahead.

Any input?

-- Josh

[joshallen2k]

Very good post indeed Josh. On the bottom bit first. I pay for a takeaway (sometimes) not web access and talk. I wonder too Josh about that? People have to read and digest first of all wouldn't they?

Totally. You know you have it within just about 2 minutes, if you don't it can be remedied but that's about the point I feel also. I was thinking of taking a tub of grub round to my local since they asked after it but what would that prove even if they said it was good? 

Its safe to say we can all cook very well judging from replies.

[JerryM]

But anyway, I am curious to know if the BIR chef's input has enabled the members there to get any further ahead.

Any input?

something i've pondered long and hard - not quite in those terms as i have enough keeping up on CRO.

the thing is though - i keep asking myself - what question(s) would i ask a BIR chef if i knew his commercial blinkers were off.

i must admit i'm struggling. spice as nice's recent foray made it worse.

this is sort of leading my grey cells into next yrs curry new yr resolutions.

for me these are to follow Mikka's spice trail, then try for a sylheti recipe and then Bahar.

after that i'm struggling - i've tried taking stock of what i do for any gaps but nothing is jumping out - i just think recipe refinement will come naturally as i gain more experience.

in short - i feel all the piece of the jigsaw are in place and that our development (collectively) is far greater than any BIR.

[joshallen2k]

in short - i feel all the piece of the jigsaw are in place and that our development (collectively) is far greater than any BIR.

Interesting point, and probably true in some ways.

We should give ourselves more credit  ;D