Topic: CA's Curry Base (aka "gravy"/"sauce")

[joshallen2k]

Oh, something else I forgot to ask...

Did you taste/texture/ingredient compare the BIR base to CA's?

[PaulP]

Hi JerryM,

I've never tasted a TA base so can you describe the differences you find between your TA base and your own creations in flavour terms? Sometimes I wonder if we strive to make our bases taste too nice - possibly too rich and expensive tasting as you say.

I feel that there is enough information gleaned from real takeaways and restaurants over the years (both from this forum and other sources/books/forums) that we can't be that far off the composition of a real base. I do appreciate that some ingredients and certainly ratios of ingredients can be lost in translation both from a language point of view and also the scaling down factor of a 60 litre base down to 2 litres!

Are you thinking of simplifying your base recipes now?

On the spice amount front I'm still experimenting but I'm probably using closer to a tablespoon (including the chilli powder) of spice mix per 350 ml of base at final cooking stages. I may try to reduce this to see what happens.

Cheers,

PaulP.

[JerryM]

sorry Josh i've not been clear enough. i was trying to get over quite a lot and clearly did not do.

after cooking with the CA aka base - i and the family felt there was no significant difference to the curries i produce already (other than i have problem with the spice mix - i want to try it without the methi leaf and powder - i used existing spice mix to make all but the madras. the madras having CA's mix which spoiled for me the madras).

after one of the subsequent posts i asked the family how my curries vary with those we get from the TA. the 1st set of Nos 1 to 3 are what the family said (ie oil, salt, 1/4 toms).

the 2nd set of Nos 1 to 3 are my observation in comparing real BIR base with base i've made. when i got a portion of the base from the TA i froze most of it and have been taking a cube out everynow and then to compare with bases i make regularly ie saffron, rajver and mytake.

for me having made CA's aka it has 100% confirmed to me what i already suspected - that a threshold exists and if a base exceeds the threshold it has very little impact on the ultimate taste of the final dish - the remaining influences ie cooking technique and ingredient have a far greater impact. in short CA's is a very good base but there is no step change or break through. i can't say this for sure until i worked on the spice mix a bit but i'm not hopeful - i just thought CA may have stumbled on something by including garlic and ginger powder.

CA's base was no closer to the BIR base in the side by side than other bases on the site. hence me listing what i feel the key differences are. the BIR base appears 2nd class on the side by side but i know it was taken straight off their stove and their curries are clear 10's. i need to add that i did not have enough real BIR base to cook with so something could be their that u can't directly taste - i doubt.

in short for me if CA's aka does not get me closer - then i must be looking at the wrong end of the cooking. my focus needs to be off base and onto recipe. i've thought this for a while but now have the conviction to stick to it.

[JerryM]

Hi JerryM,

possibly too rich and expensive tasting as you say.

Are you thinking of simplifying your base recipes now?

Cheers,

PaulP,

the real BIR base does taste very different to all the bases i've made. the made bases do taste too rich and expensive.

it has crossed my mind to try and work on the base more to get closer. the trouble is i don't feel it's what will close my gap. the trouble is i find it very difficult to describe what that gap is. i do feel i'm very close. to the extent that it can only be in the final recipe.

why i say this is that some dishes taste spot on ie admin's jalfrezi, ashoka bhuna korahi,  976bar kashmiri, bitchinsahsa butter chicken. they make not be quite BIR but there as close as dam it.

on other recipes i struggle say madras. what i don't know is if these challenge the base more or i just don't have a good enough "close enough" recipe. i think it's the later.

i intend to work on these recipes ie madras, pathia, sylheti, rogan josh a bit for a while. as u say some experimenting on spice mix amounts. i also think i'm not bringing the full compliment of ingredients into play and need to work on this more. i've just reduced my std amount of spice mix from 2 tsp per 300ml portion down to 1 tsp and find this is taking me in the right direction as an example (the thought came from CK's madras for example).

i don't see the scaling as a problem. only the need to be aware that base and curry need matching to a certain extent at frying stage ie base with more tomato use less paste at cooking etc.

[matt3333]

on other recipes i struggle say madras. what i don't know is if these challenge the base more or i just don't have a good enough "close enough" recipe. i think it's the later.
i[/quote]

This is a really good observation, I think that dishes such as Korma,CTM, Dhansak, Patia, Jalfrezi are far easier to reproduce because they all have other overriding tastes, Coconut,Cream,Lentils, peppers and so on.
However the humble Madras now that's a different beast and boy I wish i could reproduce this.
Just my personal ramblings for what its worth.
Matt

[JerryM]

matt3333,

this is exactly how i feel.

CK's madras does get me very close.

i can only describe the gap in the form of an analogy. the texture & everything is right it's just not quite there on side by side comparison. it's sort of like cooking a recipe out of a cook book compared to eating the same in a restaurant. i know "seasoning" is a common difference between home and professionally cooked food but i've explored that too.

i can only think it's something to do with the spice mix. hence my interest in CA's addition of garlic & ginger powder. i hope to cook again tonight with a modified spice mix ie no methi.

[JerryM]

i really rate CA and always aim to take on-board his findings. i am very grateful to him as his posts have learnt me most of what i know on the curry cooking front.

although my 1st go did not go as well as expected - due to the methi i consequently felt i needed to persevere a little.

this i've done and i now feel CA might just have something here. not the base but the spice mix. not to say the base is no good - it's just not a step change for myself. it's the spice mix that is key.

i made a revised spice mix today leaving out the leaf methi and powder methi. i only had cardamon pods so i was unable to use seeds (which i would/will in future - i'll buy a pack) - i just ground a tbsp (did not work well as the husks are difficult to grind down). i also upped the amount of garlic and ginger by x2 to make sure i could detect any change.

i then cooked a derivative of CK's madras ie 1/4 tsp salt, 1/4 tsp chilli, 1 tsp CA's mix minus the methi, 1 tbsp dried garlic granules, 4 tbsp passata, 1 tbsp frozen coriander, 300ml base, 100ml water added to the base.

the madras tasted very good. my wife (not a curry expert) could not tell any difference to what i normally produce. i felt though that it was a step towards BIR ie adding garlic powder and probably ginger powder to a spice mix makes a difference.

it would be interesting if others tried adding it to their existing spice mix to get a 2nd opinion.

i'm sold on it the spice mix and have adopted as my norm. those who are not so negative to methi may like the as spec version or slightly toned down.

CA - much appreciate your efforts and apologies for taking such a roundabout route to get to a result.

[Secret Santa]

i can only think it's something to do with the spice mix. hence my interest in CA's addition of garlic & ginger powder.

Jerry, if you haven't tried it already, try a little all purpose seasoning. TRS, East End etc., all do one. It definitely lifts a curry and it may just be the one thing you have missed?

[JerryM]

Secret Santa,

as always u too always know u're stuff.

i use all purpose seasoning (mines rajah) - i only use it when making the ifindforu base. the aps is a key differentiator in the ifindforu base. i have always intended exploring it a bit more in terms of general use in base. never got to it though.

i had not thought of using it in spice mix. i will defo give it a try. many thanks. the difference is certainly along those lines "seasoning". i've tried salt, hing then msg without result. i could not really see how our spice mixes could be so far out from BIR. as otherwise the difference must be down to ingredient but i can't see that either.

[976bar]

i can only think it's something to do with the spice mix. hence my interest in CA's addition of garlic & ginger powder.

Jerry, if you haven't tried it already, try a little all purpose seasoning. TRS, East End etc., all do one. It definitely lifts a curry and it may just be the one thing you have missed?

Is that the same as MSG?