Topic: In need of Lasagne Experts

[JerryM]

i make Delia's lasagne a lot. it consists of multiple layers of ragu, white sauce (bechemel) and pasta sheet.

if i eat lasagne out it's quite different. no bechemel sauce, there's a centre block of ragu and pasta sheet. then around that seems like 1 layer of ragu, cheese, fresh tomato sauce.

i'm pretty sorted on the centre block as it's essentially the same as Delia's ragu.

it's the cheesy/tomato filling that surrounds and covers it that i'm interested in recreating. the cheese i think is mozzarella (maybe a touch of cheddar). the tomato sauce must be from fresh tomatoes ie not tinned with oregano and marjoram as the herbs. i believe it's the tomato sauce that's crucial to get right.

would appreciate any input or thoughts.
 

[joshallen2k]

Jerry, when I make Lasagne I do not use a Bechamel sauce either. My "white" layer is a mix of ricotta, mozzarella, and provolone cheeses. Definitely no cheddar.

Top layer sprinkled with parmigiano reggiano.

Hope this helps.

--- Josh

[976bar]

Hi Jerry,

When I make Lasagne, I don't use a bechamel sauce, I use the following for around 600g mince.

2 1/2 pints of milk
1 large desertspoon of cornflour or just enough to thicken the milk to a thickish but still runny sauce. Make sure you keep whisking it when heating the milk to prevent it getting lumpy.
I then whisk the cornflour into the milk and boil until the milk sauce has become thickish but still runny.

I then remove from the heat, add 1 teaspoon of french mustard, then I add a mixture of grated cheddar and Parmesan. Ratio of about 2:1

As the sauce is still very hot, it melts both the mustard and the cheese into a lovely thick but runny cheese sauce.

The mustard gives it depth.

I then put my lasagne mix in a dish, put pasta sheets over the top, then a layer of the cheesy sauce. Then I repeat this process around 2 times until the lasagne layers have built up.

I then once again sprinkle the Cheddar/Parmesan over the top. Same ratio, then I sprinkle ground nutmeg on top of the cheese, some ground black pepper, then pop it into the oven for around 35-40 minutes depending on what the pasta needs to cook.

The end dish is a crusty cheese layer on the top and the inside has the meat, pasta and creamy cheese sauce.

I have to admit I have to get in first before my kids do, otherwise I don't normally get a look in!!

Happy Cooking

[JerryM]

appreciate your help Josh & 976bar

when i was a student my fav dish (except curry of course) was chip shop chips covered with cheese sauce made as a milk sauce and cheddar.

if i can't get the No white sauce version to work then the mustard/cheddar/parmesan milk sauce may just get me a halfway house.

the ricotta, mozzarella, and provolone mixture sounds what i'm after for the "white" layer. not come across provolone and will google. i guess the ricotta helps lighten the mozzarella.

any advice on the tomato sauce. i am pretty sure u can't get the Italian taste using tinned toms. i've also had suggested to use a little carrot (sounds familiar) along with the fresh skinned toms.

976bar - i know what u mean on the look in. if u've not tried it a dressed salad goes amazingly well with it just to add a bit of variety now and again. not a fav with the kids though.

[976bar]

Olive oil
1 onion finely chopped
2 cloves garlic finely chopped
1 tin italian plum tomatoes (get a good variety not the supermarket ones)
Tomato Puree
1 lamb or beef knorr stock cube in a mug of boiling water (so 1/2 pint)
dried basil
dried Oregano
1 desertspoon sugar
600 or 700 gramms of either lean steak mince or lamb mince
Worcestershire sauce
Salt and Pepper

Gently fry the onion until soft and golden brown
add the garlic and fry for around 2 minutes (don't burn it as it will taste bitter)
add the chopped tomatoes and cook for around 2-3 minutes
Meanwhile brown the mince in another pan then add this to the mixture
add the stock
add tomato puree. I usually use around 50 - 70 gramms
few dashes worcestershire sauce
add the basil and oregano
add the sugar
Salt
Ground black pepper

Now let it simmer for around 30 minutes, so that the mince is cooked thoroughly and the sauce has reduced into a lovely thick tomato consistency. Make sure you turn it every once in a while.

[JerryM]

976bar,

thanks for the recipe which is very close to the delia ragu (i think it will be on her online site or can send it if you're interested). it adds bacon and red wine and leaves out the stock, oregano and worcester sauce (interesting addition).

i'll give yours ago for comparison as it looks easier to make and has some interesting twists. i tell u though the delia ragu takes some beating. in fact her lasagne dish is very very good. i do find it needs to be pulled together just right to get 10 ie the consistency of the ragu & proportion of white sauce and cooking time.

what i'm ideally after though to make the no white sauce version is a pure fresh cooked tomato sauce. delia again has a recipe which i will use (ripe tom, onion, garlic, puree, herb) if no one has a recipe they cherish.

[976bar]

Hi Jerry,

Try this. Its not a recipe I have actually made, but it is from an Italian recipe book I have.

You can of course replace the pork chop with the mince meat for the lasagne.

Italian Tomato Sauce
2 − 28 ounce cans diced or ground tomatoes or whole
tomatoes NOT packed in puree or sauce
3 tablespoons high−quality olive oil
1 large, thick pork chop or 1−1/2 pounds beef chuck,
steak preferred
1 medium onion, peeled and finely chopped
1 medium carrot, peeled and finely chopped
4 garlic cloves, peeled and crushed
1/2 cup red wine
1−1/2 teaspoons salt
3 tablespoons fresh basil or Italian parsley, chopped
Freshly ground black pepper to taste
If using whole tomatoes, drain them, reserving the liquid and chop. Reserve
tomatoes and juice in a bowl.
In a nonreactive Dutch oven, heat the olive oil. Season the chop with salt
and pepper and brown over medium−high heat on both sides, about 8 minutes
total. Remove meat and set aside. Reduce heat to medium−low, add the onion
and carrot and saute until softened, 8 to 10 minutes. Add the garlic and saute
for 1 minute. Return the meat and any accumulated juices to the pot and add
the wine. Bring to a simmer, and cook uncovered for 3 minutes.
Add the reserved tomatoes (if using crushed or minced tomatoes, just add
them directly from the can) and the salt and bring back to a simmer. Reduce
heat to low to maintain a slow simmer, partially cover, and cook until the
meat is tender, about 45 to 55 minutes, depending on the thickness of the
meat. Remove meat and keep warm. Raise heat to medium and continue cooking
sauce for about 5 minutes, or until sauce has thickened.
Stir in the basil and/or parsley and add freshly ground black pepper to
taste (the sauce will be salty at this point; it will taste fine once added
to pasta). Slice the meat and serve with pasta and sauce.

If you try it, let me know how it turns out

[JerryM]

976bar,

many thanks. much appreciate your help.

i'll try both your ragu and the tom sauce. the tom sauce sounds exactly what i'm after and contains the carrot that i had a hunch about.

will keep u posted - i'm cooking it for tonight

[joshallen2k]

Jerry - you're right on the carrot.

My meat sauce starts with a soffrito of onion, carrot, and celery, in roughly a 2:1:1 ratio. Meat, wine, herbs and tomatoes follow that. I do use tinned tomatoes, but always buy the best, not the bargain brand variety. I finish my sauce with a little cream, parmigiano cheese and parsley.

976bar's sauce recipe looks good, although I'd definitely add some oregano and thyme.

-- Josh

[JerryM]

Josh & 976bar,

many thanks for your help - i'm now well sorted.

i got the tomato sauce too thick but everything else what just what i was after - perfecto!

the carrot as Josh say's is essential. i've also changed my mind and think tinned toms in the fresh tom sauce will be just fine.

interesting thought by Josh on the use of thyme - one for another day.

i made 976bar's ragu to spec using 70g tom puree, 10 sec pour worcester sauce, 1 1/2 tsp ea basil & oregano (will try 2 tsp ea next time), 1 tsp fresh ground black pepper. i don't even feel it would be worth adding wine - it's spot on as it is. i did end up cooking for 20 mins lid on and 50 mins lid off to get the thickish consistency but that's down to the gas setting.

i then made 976bar's italian tomato sauce almost to spec (without the meat): no wine,  800g fresh skinned toms, 150g onion, 150g carrot, 2tsp marjoram, 1 tsp basil, 2 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp black pepper. i added the rest of the ingredients in one go after the saute stage and cooked with lid on for 20 mins. i then cooked further 40 mins with lid part on. this was too much as the sauce thickened too much (needed runny).

i kept it simple on the cheese and used 500g mozzarella equivalent. i reheated in the oven at 180c but probably next time will try 200c.

have attached few pics (assembly, tom sauce & ready for oven). nb it made 4 large portions (i used 2 off dishes).

best wishes to u both - help much appreciated.