Topic: The "Secret Ingredient" Onion Paste

[JerryM]

i've had chance to do a side by side comparison.

the fine chopped garlic and cooked coriander are not present in the real BIR but my personal preference. the garlic must be their and added as a paste and the fresh coriander on top goes some way to my cooked version.

putting these 2 aside the taste was very similar. 2 things stood out:

1) the real BIR had significantly more tomato - this i find hard to take in as mine had 2 tbsp per portion of puree (3 tbsp actually to compensate for the base) which i feel is a lot. the taste is certainly not fresh tomato but i feel upping the tom puree might not be the way to go - maybe passata. one to experiment with a little.
2) the cinnamon in the onion paste is too strong. either the amount of paste or the amount of Cinnamon needs reducing. i feel the 1 tbsp of paste feels right so intend to reduce the cinnamon by 1/2 on the next make (i used 1 tsp and will reduce to 1/2 tsp).

other than these slight differences the 2 curries sat very close - enough for me to confirm my initial observation stands - the paste is spot on and significant ie the curry is better (towards BIR) with it than without it.

[adriandavidb]

Jerry

I use extra pureed tinned plum tomarto in my madras, someone else here does this also(CK perhaps?).  It adds a extra very slightly sour 'tomarto-y' taste with the cloying sweetness of puree.  About 3 tbs per 450ml of base.  You need some puree too.

Another avenue that might be worth exploring is tomarto ketchup.  Suprising I know but lots of British Chinese Restaurants (BCRs ??) do that.  It add a differnt tomarto note again, obviously sweeter (than puree even), but it might be worth exploring.  Madras from 'The Vogan' in Merstam (near me) tastes of ketchup.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if BIRs used it, it's cheap and easily availble.  After all some of them use cream of tomarto soup and Worchestshire sauce!

[Cory Ander]

CA,

i'm going to have to say yes.

I have to say that I am amazed Jerry.

[JerryM]

Adrian,

thanks for the thoughts - appreciated. i will try the "extra pureed tinned plum tomato" - i've not seen it before but feel it's something along those lines that i'm after. it's certainly not tomato sauce. it's not fresh tomato as i know how this works in a rogan josh for example.

CA,

not as amazed as me. i feel we all have different pieces of the jigsaw left to find. it just seems to be that this paste is the last piece for me (other than getting the tomato taste right).

i really am surprised that it works so well together and i feel this what makes it so good (the combination). the cinnamon on it's own would not even be on my short list and the rajah tandoori as been put firmly on the BBQ shelf. the rest of the ingredients are what we are used to.

it gets difficult to put in words the taste difference but i guess in a nutshell i've always felt there is a sort taste in the back of the throat from a real BIR which i did not get before with my efforts (not chilli but a moorish taste). the paste fixes this for me and also seems to make the curry more rounded.

if people have previously tried it without success then i feel this may be down to the "fast" cooking method in the instructions. i adopted a slowboat simmer and feel this made it easier to cook with and a much higher likelihood of producing the intended finished paste "The paste is ready when no virtually no steam is being evaporated off".

i think it most probably also depends on what type of BIR curry u like. i've been brought up on "red" curry ie plenty of garlic/onion/tomato. i don't for example like the "brown" curry (found in some restaurants in rusholme or Bradford for example).

[JerryM]

One last thought on the onion paste.

for me the paste is not something to be dolloped into every dish to convert into BIR. It's for selective use as and when needed ie when it compliments the other ingredients.

where to use - i'm learning but madras is one for sure. as an opposite example - Admins Jalfrezi - certainly not (it does not need it and would probably spoil the dish).

[Curry King]

thanks for the thoughts - appreciated. i will try the "extra pureed tinned plum tomato" - i've not seen it before but feel it's something along those lines that i'm after. it's certainly not tomato sauce. it's not fresh tomato as i know how this works in a rogan josh for example.

I also use this method Jerry as I like my curry's with that extra tomato taste you can't get from puree.

not as amazed as me. i feel we all have different pieces of the jigsaw left to find. it just seems to be that this paste is the last piece for me (other than getting the tomato taste right). I think it most probably also depends on what type of BIR curry u like. i've been brought up on "red" curry ie plenty of garlic/onion/tomato. i don't for example like the "brown" curry (found in some restaurants in rusholme or Bradford for example).

This is the point, it is something you are trying to find rather it actually being the key to the "taste".  Great that you have found what you are looking for Jerry but my opinion of the paste hasn't changed, I certainly don't feel the need to make it for a third time  ;D

As SS has suggested, there was someone a while ago that proclaimed pre-fried onions were added to every dish towards the end, finely chopped and fried they should disappear into the sauce.  Again they made a slight change but not enough for me to use this method on a regular basis. 

Funny enough I have just finished a dopiaza where I use pre-fried onions, I will post some pic's later.

[Panpot]

JerryM as ever thanks for your level of commitment and experimentation. A couple of points,

CK it could be regional variation but JerryM is somewhere East of Liverpool and I am from Glasgow yet I believe this paste makes critical difference.

I am probably going to have to also post this on the thread re myths but I also think that the paste together with the single Ali pans together with the high heat initial frying of the spices and tomato looking paste scraped as they are from the bottom before the quick evaporation of the base sauce once introduced and the possible burning of splashes as the flames lick the sides all contribute. In my local TA they do add an onion looking paste or prefried onions or a combination of both towards the end also as soon as the base goes in they add 2/4 wedges of fresh tomato.

I am fully expecting to get into a Glasgow BIR kitchen soon so should be able to give decent report of all that goes on.

[Curry King]

Hi Panpot,

It might not be regional differences more different chefs than anything else, I guess they take the recipes when they move rather than adapt to the restaurants norm.

I am fully expecting to get into a Glasgow BIR kitchen soon so should be able to give decent report of all that goes on.

That would be good, out of all the reports and insider information we have on the site this paste has never come up, now that might be because it really is a secret ingredient or the majority of BIR's just don't use it.

[Panpot]

CK your probably correct and the paste is not a true secret but in my many years of searching for the BIR smell & taste using the onion paste takes me closer but only on appropriate dishes as JerryM points out. I do hope I make real progress by getting back stage and witness first hand all that's going on. I can't wait to post my experiences cheers Panpot

[Curry King]

It could be that the onion paste emulates something that naturally occurs during the curry making process in a BIR, I'm sure if it was a standard practice it would have come up somewhere else by now.  This is why a get together would be invaluable, we could all see where we are and what we are looking at achieving, I'm sure ten of us would have ten differnent ideas of the perfect madras.  The bottom line is if respected curry nuts like you and Jerry say it works then I am not going to argue with that. 

Curry on