Topic: A must in an indian curry

[joshallen2k]

I too am intrigued about this missing sweetness.

So Jerry let me get this straight. You plan on on making a batch of Saffron, but precooking the onions? How do you intend to do this? I'm due for a new batch of Saffron later this week and want to try this modification.

Thanks,
Josh

[haldi]

I too am intrigued about this missing sweetness.

So Jerry let me get this straight. You plan on on making a batch of Saffron, but precooking the onions? How do you intend to do this? I'm due for a new batch of Saffron later this week and want to try this modification.

Thanks,
Josh

Hang on!
Isn't this what Stew just did in this thread?

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2664.0.html

[joshallen2k]

Exactly, and in Stew's words, it was BIR authentic. *If* the positive result was down to the base, then the onion pre-frying may be the key.  Before I was going to try it myself (and use the base with some of the tried and tested madras etc) I was asking the following:

<<
Stew, I would think that 40 minutes frying onion in that much oil would start to 'deep fry' it. What sort of temperature did you use in the pre-fry stage? What was the final consistency/colour of the onions before proceeding with the regular Saffron recipe?
>>

Josh

[JerryM]

i'm planning to make my normal batch of saffron but extend the 1st stage "40min" cooking time to something like 3hrs (until i feel the onions are not going to give anymore sweetness).

i've read somewhere CA saying he did this - effectively till the onions go brown from the simmering in the water/oil.

i interpreted stews info (rightly or wrongly) that the pre frying of the onions was not the critical part (see link http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2664.msg23630.html#msg23630)
but the green chilli, lime and water trick

the other thing i'm going to do is to up the oil to 750ml (i normally only use 250) to get some reclaimed oil for the 1st time.

[joshallen2k]

So you're going to boil them for 3 hours, along with the green pepper, carrot, potatoes, etc? Or just the onions alone?

How does the boiling method differ from the 'fry in oil' method that Stew used?

I'm curious to try a modification to increase the sweetness in the base, and minimize bitterness.

I agree that side by side a BIR, my efforts are correct in terms of consistency, amount of oil, taste in general, but I never get that underlying sweet tone. I agree with others that have said that adding sugar (to the base or otherwise) will not do the trick.

Josh

[JerryM]

yes going to boil all for the 3 hrs.

i'm not sure that the method (fry or boil) makes a difference. i think the end result from both methods will be the same. saying that if the boil does not work then i will try the fry on the next base.

i don't get any bitterness with any of the bases - they just taste sort of neutral (dare i say it - like soup).

you've put the finger on it "underlying sweet tone" - that's in words exactly what i too am missing

other things on my radar are reclaimed oil, adding whole cardamom at the start of the base cooking & the kushi spice mix (to compare against my norm LB)

[SnS]

Pleeeease. What's all this referral to bitterness? If it tastes bitter then you've done something wrong. Do you really believe that a BIR goes through the frying onion process everytime they produce a base gravy - not likely.

If you've used the correct onions (cooking onions and not Spanish) and cut them into large chunks, after boiling as per recipe there will be NO bitterness.

If you would like a sweeter taste, then consider adding more carrot or bell pepper. It's quite simple. To get sweetness from onion, there is no need to fry, deep fry or otherwise incinerate.

Try this. Take a whole cooking onion. Cut off the ends. Peel off the outer skin. Boil in water for 45 minutes. Taste. It's very sweet. There is your answer.

SnS 

[joshallen2k]

Actually you're both right, bitterness is not the problem. I suppose I chose this word as the "absence of sweetness", which is the neutral flavour Jerry describes.

SnS, while you're right that its unlikely they do a pre-fry stage, there are small subtleties that make a difference in the outcome. For e.g. my last 4 base gravy preparations have all been the Saffron, and they've all tasted exactly the same except the last one. All I did different was leave the finished base, covered, on the hob (no heat) overnight, rather than immediately freeze it into portions. The next day the base was darker, more oil had separated than usual. The taste of the finished curries was better too - although I can't put my finger on what exactly why.

Jerry let us know the outcome of the "three hour boil"

-- Josh

[SnS]

For e.g. my last 4 base gravy preparations have all been the Saffron, and they've all tasted exactly the same except the last one. All I did different was leave the finished base, covered, on the hob (no heat) overnight, rather than immediately freeze it into portions. The next day the base was darker, more oil had separated than usual. The taste of the finished curries was better too - although I can't put my finger on what exactly why.

Hi Josh

Its probably the same as leaving a leftover curry in the fridge overnight as opposed to freezing it. It usually tastes better the next day as the flavours mingle and marinate better before it is frozen.

BTW, when I make the Saffron base I now always leave it overnight (in containers) to completely cool before freezing the following morning. After defrosting, I also bring each portion back to the simmer before it is used in the curry.

[SnS]

Try this. Take a whole cooking onion. Cut off the ends. Peel off the outer skin. Boil in water for 45 minutes. Taste. It's very sweet. There is your answer.

Just to prove the point (to myself), immediately after my last post I did exactly that.

The boiled onion is sickly sweet - too sweet (and I take 2 tsp sugar in my brew!)

So if anyone has any doubts about the type of onions they're using, I suggest they try this little test before using those particular onions to make a batch of curry gravy. If it tastes bitter after the 45 minute boil test, then use a different type of onion.

SnS

ps: see my latest post in 'Know Your Onions'

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2491.msg23677.html#msg23677