Topic: Curry Tester's Base Soup + Curry

[JerryM]

i think i'm now with it ok.

just to test that i am, i presume u are going to use the chicken stock (home made & sounds pretty good) in place of water.

i hope u don't mind me asking but please write down your recipe as you go so u can post it if all goes well. best of luck on the experiment.

also if i could push it a little further - how will u know if u have the recipe. a brief outline of what comparison would help my understanding.

the chicken stock idea is quite interesting to me for several reasons
1) BIR's would have the carcases at hand (i think)
2) the use of general purpose seasoning in the ifindforu had a surprising effect (+ve) and probably has a profound effect on the title of what we are all making ie soup or onion base  ;D

[currytester]

The chicken stock is now done and all the ingredients have now been prepared and cooked according to my original plan using ghee. The stock has been added and the base is now bubbling away quite happily. Every step has been documented and photographed and measured to the gram.
The comparison will be three fold
1. Taste test against the saffron base which is still on the stove.
2. Taste test against the same new base with added chopped tomatoes
3. Taste test against yesterday's curry (Balti)

Theory
By cooking the onions and carrots in ghee until caramellisation just starts should release the natural sugars contained in the onions and carrots. The addition of the celery should add a more complete flavour. By frying the garlic and ginger this should remove the rawness of flavour you get and also the bitterness from them.
By frying the spices this should improve the fragrance and colour and produce slightly more depth of flavour.
The chicken stock will add more richness to the flavour. I also left the fat on the stock when it was added. This should add more flavour to the ghee when it separates.

The base I am expecting to produce should be slightly sweeter and much more flavoursome than those previously tried.

What I am hoping for is a base that will suit all types of curry - hopefully for everything from korma to phall depending on the additions at the next stage of cooking.

By the way no salt has been added at all at this stage - I feel that you should season each dish individually to your own taste.

[Chris303]

i think i'm now with it ok.

just to test that i am, i presume u are going to use the chicken stock (home made & sounds pretty good) in place of water.

i hope u don't mind me asking but please write down your recipe as you go so u can post it if all goes well. best of luck on the experiment.

also if i could push it a little further - how will u know if u have the recipe. a brief outline of what comparison would help my understanding.

the chicken stock idea is quite interesting to me for several reasons
1) BIR's would have the carcases at hand (i think)
2) the use of general purpose seasoning in the ifindforu had a surprising effect (+ve) and probably has a profound effect on the title of what we are all making ie soup or onion base  ;D

Chicken stock idea is nonsense. They are unlikely to make seperate vegetarian bases.

[SnS]

Hi Curry Tester
I agree with Chris. If your aim is to produce a vegetable soup (stock or gravy), perhaps water should of been used instead of the chicken stock.

I'm sure the BIR kitchens wouldn't use chicken stock in their main stock base either (although I do know some will include green peppers).
Look forward to seeing the results. 

Regards
SnS
 ;D

[currytester]

Good point on the chicken stock. Hadnt thought of the vege's I must admit but for today stock is stock I am afraid. However if this is successful - and I have to say its looking good at the moment - I will look at some tweaks to improve the veg stock quality.

Some interesting points raised by other people - I cant smell a thing as the house probably still smells of yesterdays curry.
If the base coats the back of a spoon it is too thick to release the oil to the surface.

[JerryM]

CurryTester.

feel your very thorough and looking fwd to result.

the veggie argument does not bode well with me - stick to the chicken stock.

any particular reason for absence of green pepper or are u looking to start basic and work up. Would also appreciate thoughts on use of garam in the base.

[haldi]

Chicken stock idea is nonsense. They are unlikely to make seperate vegetarian bases.

I have seen the base made at four places
There was no chicken stock used
Some places do use it (see Mark J's base post) but the base is not a consistant recipe
Green peppers & carrots are variables too

The chicken arrives, at takeaways, in two forms:-
Breast and "on the bone" drumsticks
It is never frozen and is halal meat

So there is no boiling carcasses at these places
I think that was old style
1990's and previous
I have been given recipes where it is used (see chicken jelly)
Do you remember those places that would cook you a whole tandoori chicken but you needed to give them 24 hours notice?
Nowhere, round here, does that now
That was the 80's and 90's
I reckon they were using a lot of chicken stock then

All the same, I think Currytester's recipes might still turn up trumps
I'm keen to hear his results
I hope he posts soon

[currytester]

Unfortunately yesterday after completing the base sauce preparation I had to go out - last rugby match of the season. Went to Aldis on way back to pick up some chili's and they were out so no Balti.
A quick look in fridge revealed an unopened pack of mushrooms so I decided on a Chicken Patia with mushrooms - for years one of my favourites with mushrooms and bindhi.
Also something that I had never reproduced with the right taste at home.

Now it was time to do a taste test on the the three sauces.

First observation - the colours were very similar with the one with added tomato's looking just vaguely darker. Expected

Instead of oil on the surface of the new bases I had set ghee - but interestingly nowhere as much as what had been used in the cooking process.

The saffron I had made the day previously had released virtually all of the oil.
Tasting the saffron to me it tastes like a raw oniony garlic sauce very slightly tart and also quite salty. It instantly reminded me of the taste I had probably over 10 years ago when making the curry secret stage 1 base. I instantly decided if I were to make the saffron again I would leave out the salt or leave it as it is and use it for the pre-cooking meat stage as per the curry secret method. I will go on to this later.

New Base without tomato tasted velvety smooth - a sauce that I could almost eat on its own - no bitterness just a hint of ghee in the background no major flavour discernible or overpowering it.
New base with tomato tasted slightly fuller but with a slightly bitter after taste.

I concluded the following from the look and taste test:

The 2 new bases were edible on their own. Straight out of the pan. The saffron base needed futher cooking and flavourings to make it a complete item and remove the raw taste. See next post for curry results

[currytester]

I note the previous post by Haldi. You are absolutely correct in your observations as to how the Takeaways receive their meat. Two of my locals that I used for probably 15 years or more had walkthrough kitchens and I had a good relationship with both. Always on the side there was pre-cooked chicken in cubes and tandori marinated joints on the bone. Neither restaurant offered the full tandoori chicken that you can remember from the 80's and 90's. UNfortunately the one I used the most has now closed down.

The Curry Test

I decided that I would just use the new base without the added tomato's.

Unfortunately by this time I was starving so forgot to take the photos. But I did write down the recipe albeit not as accurately as before but if anybody's interested I will make again and measure to the gram.

Here is the method I used to make my 15 mins Patia.

Grabbed a packet of Lidl basmati rice and poured enough for three into sieve. I then washed thoroughly under the cold tap and set aside.
Put on Oven and set to 200
Filled kettle and put on to boil.
Took two breasts of chicken and cut into roughly 1" cubes. Sliced 10 closed cup mushrooms
Chopped 1/2 a green pepper
Got spices out of cupboard ready to go plus tomato puree double concentrate.
Kettle had now boiled so added chicken to a small saucepan and poured on the boiling water. Put on high heat to bring to boil and stir once then brought down to simmer.
Put wok on burner to high heat and added ghee. Chicken is now simmering so I turned off and set aside to cook on its own.
Added green peppers to wok and stir fried for around 3-5 mins. Then added mushrooms and stir fried for two mins. Filled large pan with boiling water and added the rice and 1.5 tbsp sugar and reduced to simmer. Put two lidl nan breads in oven.
Added 2 tsp tomato puree to wok and stir fried around 30 secs added 2 tsp special spice mix and stir fried for 30 secs added 3 full ladles of new base and brought to boiling point. Added chicken to wok plus a good pinch dried methi, couple of large pinches sea salt, 3 tbsp of sugar 2.5 tbsp lemon juice. 1/2 tsp of extra hot chili powder.
Removed rice and drained through colander set aside.
Added a good handful of roughly chopped coriander to wok and took off heat.
Removed Naan's from oven and plated up.

Initial observation

Looks bloody beautiful - nice silky sheen to the sauce and no sign of separated oil.

Now for the taste test.

Silky smooth sauce, perfectly cooked moist chicken, mushroom taste coming through hot enough for my palate nicely sweet sourness from the lemon, hint of coriander and ghee.

Better than all my local takeaways but still not quite as good as the best Indian locally - they charge around ?13.00 for a similar dish which is slightly more buttery in flavour.

Rice was fine but a bit disappointed with the naan's.

Wifes comment - that was the best curry you have ever made.

Now bear in mind I last made a pathia around 2 weeks ago and the wife didnt like it at all. Next post some more tips

[currytester]

Tips

If you are going to use my method of cooking rice - it cooks in around 5 mins keep testing it until there is just a nut in it then drain and set aside - it will be perfect and fluffy by the time its on the plates.

Buy the big 99p bunches of coriander from Tesco's split into about 6 freezer bags and then freeze down. - You should never run out of coriander if you fancy a curry.

Buy whole chickens - the cheapest are from lidl's around ?1.40/kg if not somerfields or tescos 2 for ?5 - ?6 are ok You can then use carcasses and offcuts for stock and you will save a fortune on chicken breasts bought in packs. I normally buy 10 at a time and freeze them in family portions - we get through a lot of chicken and its not worth freezing down any less than 20 wings at a time. The stock can be used in virtually every recipe and definitely imparts a richness of flavour - reduce well down for perfect chicken gravy for sunday roast's

Dont't overcook the chicken as it gets tough and chewy but remember leg meat takes longer to cook.

Anybody have any idea where I can get mild chili powder from, the wife doesnt like it hot and paprika hasnt got the same flavour.