Topic: Why is my curry base bitter?

[Chris303]

George, if you strongly doubt its the length of time of cooking the onions, what else do you suggest it could be?

I'm no expert of the science of onions or bitterness but my guess is that the cooking time is not a factor, whether it be 20 mins or 2 hrs. If the onions are acidic (if that's what bitterness is) then the acid needs to be removed or neutralised, e.g. by adding a bit of bicarb of soda. I have no idea where any other bitterness could come from in a base sauce.

Regards
George

Salt is your neutraliser for Onions. If you add salt to chopped onion it will start reacting almost straight away.. and why does Tomato taste SOOOO good with salt sprinkled on top? The neutral ph is much more apealing to the palate

Also lets make the distinction of bitterness and sourness (which is the tounges ability to taste acidity).

[George]

Salt is your neutraliser for Onions. If you add salt to chopped onion it will start reacting almost straight away..

Any idea what the chemical reaction is?

NaCl + what in the onions? = what neutalised chemical(s) and/or by-product(s)?

[Secret Santa]

Further to my post earlier in this thread about a run of bitter bases I'd had, I've just brewed up a small batch of slightly modified KD base and it turned out great. This was made with the Tesco value onions which I'd used in one of the other bases and which I thought might be the source of the bitterness, but apparently not.

The one thing I always do with this modified KD base is to fry the onion, garlic and ginger on low heat, and in loads of oil, for about 15 minutes and I'm convinced that this is what is preventing any bitterness showing through. The other bases I've tried (except admin's I think) tend to boil the onions and this is where I think the bitterness is coming in.

Anyway, I'm glad the KD base turned out OK or I would have been completely stumped.

[SnS]

The other bases I've tried (except admin's I think) tend to boil the onions and this is where I think the bitterness is coming in.

Boiling an onion (whole or coarsely chopped), in water (or watery stock) produces the sweetest of all the onion cooking methods (including sauteing).

If a gravy recipe requires the onion to be boiled (as most do), bitterness can be avoided by

a) chopping the onion coarsely and not smashing it to bits in a blender
b) ensuring the gravy is not too thick (enough water) to enable boiling at 100 degrees C
c) maintain that temperature throughout the gravy by rigorous simmering (enough heat), covered
d) stirring to ensure even temperature distribution

SnS  ;D

[Secret Santa]

Boiling an onion (whole or coarsely chopped), in water (or watery stock) produces the sweetest of all the onion cooking methods (including sauteing).

Would you care to prove that?

[SnS]

Boiling an onion (whole or coarsely chopped), in water (or watery stock) produces the sweetest of all the onion cooking methods (including sauteing).

Would you care to prove that?

Try it.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2491.0.html

Essential cooking principles SS

[Rai]

Rai, I think you should perhaps be more careful with your tone. I know you're just having some banter but a few of your posts come across borderline offensive

Now now bobby, Im almost taking offence at that 

I think youre mistaking valid (but arguably blunt) points as being offensive?  If so, the problem may lie with you (or others) rather than with me.  My view is that people have been speculating too much as to the causes without attempting to understand the problem sufficiently.  I felt it needed to be said 

[Bobby Bhuna]

Now now bobby, Im almost taking offence at that 

I find it offensive you finding me offensive!

[Rai]

I hope you dont find this too offensive bobby, but I think this is really interesting.

A good chef friend of mine (shes a member here but declines to post, I think shes shy  ) was telling me that one of the first things they are taught is to not use disimilar metals (eg and aluminum pot and a stainless steel spoon).

She mentioned that if you do this with, say, bechamel sauce or custard, you quite likely end up with a disgusting grey colour.

Presumably its because an electolytic cell (battery) is set up between the two disimilar metals.  I was suprised that the reaction rate is so high but I guess its to do with the elevated temperatures.

Just goes to show huh?  Maybe its not just onions that can cause bitterness in the base? 

[Rai]

I was interested also to read about adding bicarb.  I know this is something chip shops do when making 'mushy peas', presumably for the same reason, to help them break down.

Apparently this was done in olden days more so to preserve the colour of the vegetables (like a colour fixer actually).  However it was also found to destroy vitamins and therefore fell into disuse.  My good chef friend also alerted me to this interesting fact.

http://www.all-about-cooking.com/bicarbonate_of_soda.html