Topic: Experienced members base sauce of choice

[JerryM]

it seems there are 2 approaches used in base cooking. 1) the long cook with lots of oil. 2) the quick cook with less oil.

there's quite a "lot" in the posts of the last week that it's very easy to get mixed up. there are BIR's. there are also what i'd call posh Asian Restaurant's. the food (and price) is very different. i was brought up on BIR and that remains my focus. the PAR's do produce very good food. i associate long cook with BIR and quick cook with PAR's.

for me the 2 cooking approaches are very different and can't be mixed and matched ie u follow one or the other. there are several factors for me irrespective of which approach:
1) oil helps soften and sweeten onion
2) veg are difficult to blend if not cooked through
3) the amount of oil in a finished dish is critical
4) too much cooking spoils any taste (too high or too long)
5) fine chopped ingredients take longer to prepare and far more tricky to cook

for me personally my preference is: high oil in base initially, slow gentle cooking, remove majority of oil before blending, add water after blending and cook further, use high amount of oil at dish cooking.

[JerryM]

SPICES as follows:

Half a teaspoon of own special blend of ground spices, this consisted of cinnamon sticks,cumin seeds,kasia bark,fennel seeds,bay leaves,black peppercorns,green cardamon pods,whole cloves. these were all slowly roasted overnight in an oven and then broken up and ground down to a powder. (he called it garam masala).

i've got this on the go. i have oven temp gauge so able to know for sure the oven temp. the lowest i can get is 80C.

i found it difficult to decide on the proportions of spice to use as the depth of flavour is bound to be different to the infused spice ball flavour. i'm thinking to grind each individually and then add a bit at a time until i get a taste i like. i think if it works better than the spice ball then i would have to invest in some lab scales.

recipe at mo: cinnamon 200mm stick, casia 150mm thin stick, fennel 2 tbsp, bay 8 off,  black pepper 1 tsp, cardamom 1 tsp, anis 1 tbsp.

i think in future i would break up the cinnamon to get a better judgement on the volume being used than relying on just the length.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii262/jerrym07/OvenRoastedWholeSpice.jpg

[chriswg]

for me personally my preference is: high oil in base initially, slow gentle cooking, remove majority of oil before blending, add water after blending and cook further, use high amount of oil at dish cooking.

Although you are vastly more experienced at this than I am, I think you have to maintain the high oil content suspended in the base sauce to achieve the BIR taste. They are inherently very bad for you, but most of the best things in life are!

I have tried the slow cook, oil reclaim method with some very good results but after trying the opposite end of the spectrum I am converted.

My personal preference is: high oil in base initially, fast cooking of vegetables by almost deep frying them in the frying pan, add water, don't remove any oil and blend, use slightly less oil at dish cooking and cook on high heat and serve just as the oil in the base starts to separate.

I'm away on holiday for 2 weeks so no curries Once I'm back I'll try both side by side as I have some 4 hour base and 20 min base in the freezer.

[JerryM]

chriswg,

experience matters little for me. we probably don't know the full story of both slow and quick methods. so anyone with any new ideas are very welcome and if they don't lead directly to improved success then quite often they can initiate other thoughts.

all posts are equally of interest to me.

have good hols.

[JerryM]

SPICES

the day was real pleasant (even the footie). having the oven on kept the kitchen warm which would be real good in the winter months. the smell of the spices gently roasting would be the envy of u all.

anyhow i cooked them for 9 hrs before switching the oven off and then left them in whilst it cooled so i would say they cooked for 10 hrs. the temp settled at an average of 70C so not that far from the 60C spec. if i made again i would break the cinnamon & casia sticks up a bit (so they roast better).

i ground the spices this morning and settled on recipe (tsp): cinnamon 2, casia 1, fennel 5, bay 2,  black pepper 1, cardamom 1, anis 2

Nb (i think the cardamon originally must have been 2 tsp or 8 off cardamom)

the finished powder reminds me very much of garam masala. i chucked away a little casia and probably half the cinnamon.

given that the powder tastes very much a garam i'm not convinced it will work as good as the infusion method (spice ball). i've wrestled in the past with what spices should "need" to go into a base and concluded that minimal spicing is best (add at dish frying stage). i've used garam before. it works well for example in the rajver. it does not work well in most bases. i've not worked out why but matters not.

i intend to make base sometime this week and will use the garam "ground whole spice" instead of my usual infusion method. i don't hold out much as the infusion produces a subtle gentle taste c/w with the in your face garam.

it has at least for me answered the question of yes/no for garam in a base.

[tgad2007]

You mention that you chucked half the cinamon away, when i was shown the blend being made the cinamon sticks were not the same shape and thickness as the normal ones bought from a shot, they were almost hollow bits of bark, but what i must say is that he made sure that there was literally loads of cinamon and there is definately a distinct smell diference in the finished result as opposed to a standard garam masala.  Great effort for trying it though but all the spices were ground up and none were thrown away and the cinamon was definatley a main ingredient which which you can tell the difference in the final smell after grinding. 

[JerryM]

tgad2007,

many thanks for the extra advice. i do agree on the importance of the cinnamon coming through.

and yes it is quite different to standard masala made or branded. i feel it's actually wrong to call it garam masala. i used garam in my description so it does not get confused with the infusion spice ball method. i very much like the taste of the finished product. it's just very difficult to know which mix proportions will give the best result in the final curry. i know this would improve as u start to use it and gain experience. i'll call it whole spice masala.

the reason i chucked some of the roast spice away was i had no idea of the initial proportions to roast - i just think i put too much cinnamon and Casia in at the start. my cinnamon and Casia are as u describe "tree bark" like.

i've added in anis and taken out the cloves - just personal preference.

best wishes.

[Derek Dansak]

Interesting to hear the variety of methods members use with regard to oil in base, and the final dish. perhaps slavishly, i have emulated the approach taught at my local bir : low oil in base, lots in final dish. i am sure all methods work well once you master them. i am sticking to my approach, simply because i am comfortable with it, and its working well every time. my consistancy is really improving, by sticking to my own style. 2 years down the road of bir cooking i am actually getting the hang of it, at last. i am confident the amazing bir taste factor will gradually develop naturally as i learn more. i am sure its all subtle technique and practice. no missing ingredients in my kitchen !!

[JerryM]

low oil in base, lots in final dish.

DD,

100% for me too. i've arrived at this through trial and error. u need a garage or shed.

[JerryM]

tgad2007,

in sum respects i'm quite taken aback yet in other respects i'm not. i made my CRO2 adapted base yesterday essentially following 2 of your chefs ideas (low spice and roasted whole spice masala). the base tasted every bit as good as it normally does. i would need to compare side by side to spot any difference. the same applied to the cooked curries.

i was already on the idea of reducing the spice in the base (~4% of initial onion volume to ~2%). however please apply great applause on the chef for the slow roast method. both the slow roast and infusion produce an equivalent result. the slow roast has the advantage of much less messing. i intend to adopt the slow roast from now on.

many thanks