Why we cannot produce that missing taste ?

[George]

i'm happy to take back the comments on Haldi's base - i just don't like chick peas and would never use them myself...on the oil business - just go to your deep fryer and have a look and decide for yourself...the oil is definitely the key - we just need to explore it a bit

Jerry

Thank you for not 'going for me' because I was a bit aggressive in using words like irrelevant with regards to your posts. It's just that we must be 'missing a trick' here to get from '95% to 100%'. Of course, I don't know the answer. None of us do, yet, even after several years of trying. But I really wouldn't rule anything in or out, whether it be chick peas, old oil or anything else. As you or someone else said, it's really only a good, honest recipe which we need.

I think many of us might be shocked if we knew what really goes into some of the curries we love from BIRs. Not cats or saliva as some may have joked, but simply too much salt and vast quantities of oil, which can't be good for one's health. I'm prepared, though, to use such ingredients and quantities in the interest of R&D and for the occasional party. I wouldn't use them for every day eating, though. That's the difference for me. So if old oil and chick peas are added to the list, or chicken stock which a vegetarian is expected to consume, so be it!

If the BIRs put spoonfulls of oil from lots of curries back into the base sauce, then there's a real mix in there. Perhaps this could be simulated by heating oil with small quantities of almost every ingredient found in the BIR kitchen. Then the 'trace elements' would enter the base sauce and final curries at home. Just a thought...

[TGReaper]

We could get a paypal link that we all could donate to. We could then bribe / pay some BIR chef into one of our homes i would be willing to donate. What are your thourghts?

[joshallen2k]

We could get a paypal link that we all could donate to. We could then bribe / pay some BIR chef into one of our homes i would be willing to donate. What are your thourghts?

At this point, why not.

Anyone up to putting the question to a top notch BIR head chef?

We could experiment with chick peas, mooli radishes, poppadom oil, etc, etc. A thorough demo with 100% documented ingredients, method, cookware, etc is what we need.

Anyone else in?

[JerryM]

George - no probs thanks for your thoughts - appreciated

Admin,

i tried your "pan swirling" trick last night for the 1st time and thought it made a difference and have adopted it going fwd.

i usually stir the pan frequently through the entire cooking process. last night i stirred as normal until the base had gone in. i then essentially stopped stirring and swirled the contents by shaking the pan in a circular motion. i periodically cleaned around the inside of the rim but did not touch the bottom of the pan.

this trick makes the cooking real easy - i went back and sat down at the table where i spent most of the night - i just nipped back every now and then for a swirl - real easy peasy.

what i did notice is you can tell visually when the curry is ready - the texture looks just how u want it.

i used a very thin base and left the new stove on full blast all the way through instead of simmering after base goes in. also interestingly i feel i've now got the measure of my new stove and can handle the extra heat.

in conclusion i feel this swirl trick is part of the jigsaw.

[Spottymaldoon]

I agree with Ghanna - in my experience (almost 50 years) and hundreds of attempts I have not yet 'done it' - and friends (including bona fide Indians) who make the claim, after hours of internet time, have not so far impressed me sufficiently.

Problems are:

(1) I can't reproduce the 'smokey taste'
(2) Ths spice fragrances do not go into the meat
(3) the sauce just does not smell right, despite trying multiple garam masalas and always cumin, fenugreek leaves, cardamom, ground coriander. SOMETHING IS MISSING!!

My curries are just 'nice' - most edible, but the similarity to the elusive BIR aroma eludes me!

I have tried LOTS of oil at high temperatures - and flambeing; frying the spices on the theory that their essences are best tranferred via the oil medium (partition coefficient); being sensitive to the fact that some essential oils are destroyed by heat and trying a composite of fried AND unfried spices.

Excuse me now, I have a pot of curry on the go upstairs ...

[haldi]

My curries are just 'nice' - most edible, but the similarity to the elusive BIR aroma eludes me!

Yes, I know what you mean
They just don't smell right
I saw a rhogan josh cooked last night
No real surprises on the recipe, I've posted very similar before
But I was watching very intently to see any missed "trick"
Chef added a little oil to a pan and turned the heat to medium
Then he added about a desertspoon of garlic ginger
He spread this round the pan and fried for a couple of minutes
Then he added a small handfull of mixed onion and green pepper
He quickly added about one and a half desertspoons of spice mix and a similar amount of tomato puree.
Without much delay, he seem to fold all the ingredients into a small pile in the middle of the pan.
He turned the gas up high and let this mixture sit there for a couple of minutes.
Very near the end of this time, there was the amazing BIR aroma
Perhaps it is slightly burning?

Well after that, he added the curry gravy & precooked chicken and the recipe went much the way of all curry recipes
But do you think this "singeing" of ingredients could be it?
I'm certainly going to give it a try

Another encouraging thing was that he was using a relatively small pot for the curry gravy.
It was about the size of a pressure cooker (without the lid)
This was freshly made gravy and had been made in this pot.
That means, for sure, that you don't need to make a full sized base to get the right flavour.
I reckon an eight medium sized onion base, would be all he had made
It is possible to do this
We are tantalisingly close

[joshallen2k]

Without much delay, he seem to fold all the ingredients into a small pile in the middle of the pan.
He turned the gas up high and let this mixture sit there for a couple of minutes.
Very near the end of this time, there was the amazing BIR aroma
Perhaps it is slightly burning?

A couple of minutes, on full heat, with no stirring? If that was one of my home efforts I'd be scraping black stuff off the pan.

How is that possible? I would think that everything on the pan surface would be charred.

Really interested to understand...

-- Josh

[Spottymaldoon]

Haldi Posted on: September 10, 2008, 10:42:57 PM
But do you think this "singeing" of ingredients could be it?

I have thought this (for most of the  50 years I have been trying) - back in 1960 an Indian fellow told me "first you must BURN the curry powder!" but easier said than done. And, you'd think, that if the ingredients were right, that in just one or two of those hundreds of curries I have made, there would be one cock-up which would have produced the definitive article! Has not happened. Doubtless several knowing Indian chefs are watching our feeble attempts here with great amusement.

[joshallen2k]

I've seen a few of Bobby Bhuna's burn-jobs, and he's been pretty clear the taste was bad.

This can't be it, unless its a slight burn of some of the spices (and garlic/ginger) while the rest are cooked properly.

Might explain the smoky flavour, while the curry by and large is unaffected.

Why not, I will give Haldi's "small pile" observation a go and report back after tomorrow night's vindaloo.

One curry is worth an experiment.

-- Josh

[JerryM]

my heart really gel's with this idea but experience tells me there is still something wrong.

i used my stove last night and having thought i'd got the measure of it i burnt a second curry. this time i think it was the spices not the tom puree (last time). the result as Bobby as eloquently described before is real bad.

like josh if i tried to assembly a heap "small pile" it would definitely burn. my best results now seem to be when i don't heat the pan & oil before putting the tom puree in ie the stove produces the right amount of heat straight away to fry the tom puree and spices.