Topic: Who believes there is a secret ingredient to the curry base?

[pete]

Hi Keith,

The Curry House Cookery download you are talking about by Bruce Edwards, does it give more info to that which Pete posted? If it does, then it's got to be good vallue at ?7.95. Could you please post the link for me.

This download is NOT by Bruce Edwards
It is by David Smith.
He has spent a long time working out the recipes.
He said on the forum there, that he had not got these recipes from indian chefs.
I have tried a couple and they are ok.
They are also a tidy format of recipes.
Everything is clearly laid out.
If you think that you will get a missing step ,bringing you closer to a restaurant flavour, then forget it.
You are wasting your money.
There are better recipes on this site.
The curry base, and other recipes are already free on his site, but there are a lot more in the download.
Check out the basics on:-
http://www.curryhouse.co.uk/rsc/index.htm
The only clear advantage is that there is a Q & A section where you can sort things out (after you have paid)

[Yellow Fingers]

Hi Curry King

I don't think theres a secret ingredient as already been said how could it have been kept so secret.?

Easily. No one has seen the base sauce as used by a restaurant for its own curries being made from start to finish, so they can put anything in it that they have not told you about.

Several people here have seen quite a few different curries made either in demos or watching in open kitchens, so they've seen the techniques and other general ingredients but not, I repeat not, the making of the base sauce.

Until someone actually sees this made it remains the only possible place to 'hide' a necessary ingredient. Equally of course, if someone did get to do this and there was clearly no secret ingredient being used and a curry made with this sauce has that missing something we are looking for, then it would be case proved and we could move on.

Or as mentioned by someone earlier, buy a batch of a curry houses base sauce and use that for your curries. If the missing aroma/flavour is still missing then that would be proof that it's not the base sauce that we need to work on.

I just can't understand how some people here can post with what seems like certainty that there isn't a 'secret' ingredient in the base sauce.
There's no logic in your arguments.

Where's your proof that there's no 'secret' ingredient in the curry when no one has ever seen the base sauce being made?

[pete]

Hi Curry King

Where's your proof that there's no 'secret' ingredient in the curry when no one has ever seen the base sauce being made?

I suppose it's not really proof, it's more a character judgment.
I really believe these chefs when they say there is nothing else.
I have gone back to a chef and asked again, and he was most insistant that the base he gave me was correct.
I felt that further quizzing, was like calling him a liar, which I didn't feel to be the case.
Maybe I'm wrong.
But how much business would he lose by telling?
I know of noone outside this group who would be prepared to make these curries.
Therefore it would not noticibly affect him.
Are these commercial gas cookers capable of producing more heat?
Maybe we're not getting the oil hot enough.
We've all had brilliant chips done in hot oil and we've all had horrid soggy ones where the oil wasn't hot enough.
Maybe you can't make the curries on a domestic cooker because a lack of heat?

[Curry King]

There's no logic in your arguments.
Where's your proof that there's no 'secret' ingredient in the curry when no one has ever seen the base sauce being made?

Each chef has his own recipe and little tricks that make his gravy different from someone else's which they keep close to their chests, this is probaly due to the fact that if the restaurant owner finds out how to make it they would get replaced by someone cheaper, maybe.? The 2 restaurants near me produce completley different vindaloos yet they are both fantastic and have "that" taste.?

That in mind I cannot belive that every single restaurant chef has a little bag labled "curry secret" that they just add to their own paticular gravy to give it "the taste".? I have spoken to a few chefs over time about whats in the gravy and they have all said pretty much the same thing with slight variations.?

I think its all about technique and practice rather than any secret ingredient, I know if a I make crap curry any amount of secret ingredient won't give it "the taste"

[Yellow Fingers]

Each chef has his own recipe and little tricks that make his gravy different from someone else's which they keep close to their chests, this is probaly due to the fact that if the restaurant owner finds out how to make it they would get replaced by someone cheaper, maybe.

Unfortunately that just backs my assertion that there could be a secret ingredient in the base sauce. There's just no winning with this one. We'll go round and round with guesses and suppositions because we just don't know!

I think its all about technique and practice rather than any secret ingredient

I definitely think this is wrong. The techniques used in the final curry preparation have been witnessed and verified by at least four people in this group at different establishments. It seems to boil down to:

1.very high heat from start to finish (not normally reproducable at home as the curry house gas rings put out at least five times the BTU as the largest ring on a domestic gas hob). If you're using an electric hob you've got no chance of reproducing the required heat.

2.loads of oil, possibly of the spiced variety from the top of the base sauce, or from the frier

3.browning the garlic/ginger adequately

4.two or three small ladles of base sauce with at least one of these reduced to almost dry consistency

5.igniting the oil/sauce during the final cooking (I briefly got a look in two kitchens many years ago and I saw this in both)

6.pre-cooking anything that can't be cooked in about 10 mins, which is the average final cooking time for the finished curry

Did I miss anything there?

The point is, of all the things we know the techniques of the final curry preparation are the best known because they have been witnessed and confirmed by several people. Therefore I doubt that technique is the missing factor, assuming of course that we are all capable of faithfully reproducing this technique each time.

So if we've got the techniques right, and we've got the base sauce right, and we have people who have recipes for the final curries witnessed at restaurants, but still cannot reproduce the missing aroma/flavour of the takeaway curry, what's left?

[Keith]

Pete
This download is NOT by Bruce Edwards
It is by David Smith
 What i said was that i used the base sauce of bruce edwards as i liked it and used recipes from the Curry house cookery as they seemed to work for me . They are not one and the same i know . As for value for money who knows.I'm sure you could tell me a thing or two for free  . i'm still learning .
Keith

[Mark J]

Until someone actually sees this made it remains the only possible place to 'hide' a necessary ingredient. Equally of course, if someone did get to do this and there was clearly no secret ingredient being used and a curry made with this sauce has that missing something we are looking for, then it would be case proved and we could move on.

I must confess that on witnessing the chefs making the curries it did cross my mind that maybe it wasnt salt they were adding but was actually MSG. There is absolutely no doubt that chinese restaurants use MSG and asian grocers do stock MSG (although they supply chinese restaurants also)

[Mark J]

1.very high heat from start to finish (not normally reproducable at home as the curry house gas rings put out at least five times the BTU as the largest ring on a domestic gas hob). If you're using an electric hob you've got no chance of reproducing the required heat.

2.loads of oil, possibly of the spiced variety from the top of the base sauce, or from the frier

3.browning the garlic/ginger adequately

4.two or three small ladles of base sauce with at least one of these reduced to almost dry consistency

5.igniting the oil/sauce during the final cooking (I briefly got a look in two kitchens many years ago and I saw this in both)

6.pre-cooking anything that can't be cooked in about 10 mins, which is the average final cooking time for the finished curry

Ill just lob my 2 peneth in here, I have been in a top restaurant kitchen and a takeaway kitchen.

1. - Yes both on high heat but I think easily reproducable on a home gas ring
2. - I think this is the killer (in more ways than one  ;D), they use shedloads both added at the start of the process and in the base gravy. For a portion for 1 person you should probably start with 4 TBSP of oil at least.
3. - Maybe, both chefs I have seen didnt seem to brown the garlic/ginger (actually both only used garlic not ginger), they certainly cooked it for a little while though and it was the first step so maybe it ends up brown by the time the curry gravy goes in?
4. - The restaurant added a small lade and reduced it both times, the takeaway just added one big ladle and that was that so I dont think reducing the gravy is that important.
5. - The restaurant didnt ignite the pan
6. - Absolutely

[pete]

I must confess that on witnessing the chefs making the curries it did cross my mind that maybe it wasnt salt they were adding but was actually MSG. There is absolutely no doubt that chinese restaurants use MSG and asian grocers do stock MSG (although they supply chinese restaurants also)

I had a bag of msg which I tried in various recipes.
I noticed no marked difference.
The stuff is odorless like salt.
I suppose it should react with flavours in whatever it goes in.
There was meant to be a cancer link to msg.
I stopped using it a few years back.

[Mark J]

Still got the bag? 

Pete, you have bought base sauces, did they have 'that taste' in them?