Topic: Who believes there is a secret ingredient to the curry base?

[pete]

I've cooked all day
I made my some brilliant pillau rice
I made my best curry base (chef recipe on this site)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=14.0
But I modified it, similar to the 100 baltis idea
But also like the chicken jelly idea too
When I had the onions boiling I added a portion of raw chicken
I removed it before blending
The base turned out really well
I had no intention to cook a curry straight away, but I got enthusiastic.
I used all the information I had learnt from demos, books and this site
Really hot oil
Flambed it
Good restaurant spice mix
Carefull to not burn spices
Excellent curry base
Not too much fenugreek
A little salt
A pinch of ground coriander and ground cummin near the end
It was a vindaloo
Very good
But damn it, is still misses that special aroma
Maybe I'm too spiced out
But I bet if I had a bought curry, I could smell the aroma on that

[Yellow Fingers]

I can't help wondering if "The Breath of a Wok" and 'wok hay' is some sort of wind-up

That's a bit disingenuous George. Wok Hei, or wok hay as they call it, is perhaps a little mysterious? only because restaurant chefs are able to achieve it and we can't. Now where have I heard that before? But in essence it's just super high heat applied to the wok and consideration about how ingredients are added to the wok.

I answered someone elses question a while ago about not achieving the chinese restaurant taste and I think I said it can't be done, for some dishes, and it really can't, not at home anyhow. If you've never seen the burners used at a chinese restaurant, they are usually a hole in the top of a range into which the wok fits while cooking. The heat from these puts the curry house burners to shame, they must be throwing out at least four times that much heat.

Another person asked why they couldn't get their noodles like the restaurant one's. I was going to reply, quoting the wok hei technique, but I knew I wouldn't be believed. Either that or the person would try it out on their biggest gas burner and still fail, because it still wouldn't be big enough and then conclude that my advice was wrong, so I never answered.

So in conclusion Wok Hei is not a myth just to sell books and you will never achieve it at home, thereby lending unfounded evidence I suppose to those that don't believe in it.

[pete]

Hi Yellow Fingers
So was my curry not quite right because I don't cook hot enough?
I think Mark J has a pretty intense heat cooker
Mind you, I think he is pretty happy with what he achieves
(Hi Mark!)

[Yellow Fingers]

But I modified it, similar to the 100 baltis idea
But also like the chicken jelly idea too
When I had the onions boiling I added a portion of raw chicken

Hi Pete, do you mean you used raw chicken and some chicken jelly? Also where do you stand now on the chicken stock in the base question, do you think the restaurants do this?

A pinch of ground coriander and ground cummin near the end

That's new, why did you do it this way?

Maybe I'm too spiced out
But I bet if I had a bought curry, I could smell the aroma on that

Exactly, yet another good test of the unique curry house curry 'smell'


It's good to see someone making progress. Is your pilau recipe already on the site?




Oh blimey, you typed more while I was typing this!? ?

So was my curry not quite right because I don't cook hot enough?

I don't have a restaurant style/size burner so I can't categorically say yes or no. However I think the Indian restaurants only use high heat all the way through purely to get it cooked quickly. High heat isn't generally used in 'traditional' Indian cookery.

Any benefits, be it taste or smell, that accrue from using a high heat are incidental but it's clearly one link in the chain that should not be left out. Perhaps you could try your new best vindaloo on a friends wok burner if they have one?

[Ashes]

The closest ive come to a restaurant flavour (and it did smell exactly like restaurants produce) although i cant garantee about that special flavour as im not convinced we are thinking along the same scent trials

But, this was by accident, i managed to cook a Kris Dhillion base with almost half the amount of water suggested, ie, i used 1 litre of water for the base. The only other addition was the advice that curry houses finely grind their spices until they are powder and NO grains can be felt between the fingers..(min 2 minutes) otherwise i used Curry Masala recipe instead of the Garam Masala http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=491.0

I might have used some bottled ginger paste instead of fresh ginger but i cant believe it makes much difference
I usually use a 4 litre saucepan with a lid for the onion mixture, a 4 liter for the tomato and paprika mixture without lid and when i mix the 2 i usually dont put the lid on either as it needs to be skimmed.

Usually i use the balti recipe in the Curry Secret book and maybe make sure the sauce is nicely reduced on a low heat towards the end as this intensifys the flavours. The Coriander and Cumin seeds as roasted and ground seperately the fresh Coriander is chopped finely and added in the last 2-4 minutes

[Mark J]

Mind you, I think he is pretty happy with what he achieves
(Hi Mark!)

Hi Pete? ;D

I thought I was until last weekend, distinctly average curry, I think I overdid the methi. Its that smell and taste, very elusive!

I've got a 5 ring hob and the centre one is a 3.3 kw wok burner which I use for curries and a steel wok. It gets hot but its still not the same as a BIR range, my flames are thin pencil like and blue, theirs are still blue but there is just loads more flame, on high it completely envelops the frying pan they use, even going up the sides slightly.

Heres mine : http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=388.0

YF, Petes pillau rice is awesome, Its the only recipe that consistantly lets me get near reataurant quality pillau rice: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=396.0

[Yellow Fingers]

The closest ive come to a restaurant flavour (and it did smell exactly like restaurants produce

Hi Ashes,

Hmm, very interesting. I'm still a fan of the kris Dhillon base myself, despite its simplicity. I think she spoils the curries by the use of garam masala though so substitution of your curry masala sounds good.

Is this a fair summary of your method?

Use double strength Dhillon base (because you used half water)
Use the balti recipe as per the book but use roasted/ground coriander and cumin
replace garam with your masala mix (same quantity as dhillon recipe?)
reduce the curry for a bit at the end to intensify flavour
add chopped coriander into the curry itself (not sprinkled on top?)

[George]

I can't help wondering if "The Breath of a Wok" and 'wok hay' is some sort of wind-up

Wok Hei, or wok hay as they call it, is perhaps a little mysterious  only because restaurant chefs are able to achieve it and we can't. Now where have I heard that before?

You make some good points and, in particular, I've always thought it made sense to copy BIR cooking technique as far as we can, including sky high heat for most 'stage 2' cooking. My doubt about wok hay was more to do with the idea that the pan coating can have much of an impact on the taste. But perhaps it does.

Regards
George

[Ashes]

Yes YF

I dont usually use 1 litre of water i try to use the recommended amount
but maybe slightly less water improves over slightly too much.

The techiques are as in the book. Start off with high heat on the base sauce
this reduces the sauce quite quickly.add a bit of salt,chilli-powder and chillies
this is for flavour and heat.
Then the sauce gets to a point where you need to add the meat after maybe
 5-10 minutes - depends on how high your can fry at. Marks got a great
setup (lucky ?#""#?") so he can reduce sauces quicker than me.

Then add the precooked meat and reduce the heat to medium
Add the spices make sure they are cooked through but not so
high as to burn them, not so low as they wont be cooked

Then allow the  sauce to simmer gently

The whole process takes around 20 mins,
sauce reduces for about 5-10 (depends on how much your making)
the meat reduces the heat level so the heat needs to rise again
the spices are thrown in on medium heat
and left to cook through for 5 mins
the sauce is left on low heat until the oil starts to make it seperate
then it depends how thick you like your curries

The Curry Masala recipe hasnt many of the aromatics
of the normal Garam Masalas so it makes a less
sweeter version and a more savoury curry which i prefer
Ive never had a sucessful version with shop bought GM.

[Mark J]

Time to dust off the curry secret again!