Topic: Garlic browning

[grimmo]

Following on from the earlier threads I agree with the general sentiment that the missing taste is in the base sauce, but at the same time I don't understand the parameters of the problem - if that makes sense.

To my mind the missing taste is not something subtle, it's a marked unctous depth to the sauce as though an igredient is missing altogther. Would everyone agree on this? It's basically all there apart from this one missing piece?

 So - to restate the obvious - what could it be?

An ingredient we aren't aware of?
or a correct method to cooking the ingredients that we havent got right?

Assuming the latter. Everytime I've made a base sauce it looked increasingly more correct in appearance and texture, but I've assumed that I must have bodged the garlic/ginger browning process. Can Pete or Dylan (I can't remember who posted on this) confirm that if you nail the garlic/ginger browning you get that taste?

On more than one occasion I've probably underdone it, and on others maybe just overdone it in the base sauce. When overdone the galric/ginger has still been brown but started to go plastic-y.  I'm wondering though if browning the garlic or galric/ginger combo to just the right stage can be soley responsible for this missing taste, as it's quite a significant tast difference imo?

Sorry if this goes over old ground but I'm puzzled on this. Are we saying that at a certain fleeting point you get an explosion of flavour from garlic ginger that permeates through into the sauce and gives that distinct taste?  If so is there an agreement on quanities required say for making a 2 litre batch of sauce.

Can anyone post a photo of the galric/ginger when it's at this stage. That would probably help me.

cheers

[Blondie]

I agree 1000 % there is a definite taste of an ingredient or combination of ingredients that we do not have in any of our bases, I have tried several times on forums including this one to get this accepted but those who will not listen are convinced that they are right with the ingredients (because a chef told them) and they are convinced the taste is in the method.

I am pleased that, at last, someone seems to feel the same way that I do.  The taste On it's own (if YOUR palette can separate the tastes) is not particularly pleasant, with a sort of musty sweet pickled oniony flavor, BUT if it isn't there the curry just doesn't taste like a takeaway job.

Cheers,

Blondie

[Keith]

Ok . just a trainee chef here on this forum but have been in search of THAT  flavour you get from the local takeaway for a long time ..like everyone else here i suspect .
Having read all the various posts on this thread about demonstrations i thought i would ask my local takeaway for some tips .
I made up a batch of bruce edwards curry base last week and have been getting on my wifes nerves all week making her taste different sauces at varios stages of cooking with a teaspoon ( not to metion the house now smells like the takeaway )
i made a chicken patia with this base and used one of the demo's from this site which was absloutely gorgeous and took it to the Indian
The chef at the resturant was more than happy to come out the kitchen to see me and try this attempt ( i felt like saying "stay in the kitchen and i'll come through but i thought no i'll maybe get in another time ). He had a good look at it , consistency etc and then tried it . he said it was good but was missing lemon juice for the sour element. I started to ask all the questions i had about spices etc . he said they use (amongst all the other important spices) curry powder in everything ! although i don't think it's curry powder as i know it . I asked what was in it and he just said "many spices " . I went though all the ones i thought may have gone into it which he confirmed but i think with the language barrier i may have missed something  . I asked about the base sauce and his sounded very much like bruce edwards with the carrotts and celery etc so i think i'll stick with that one .he also said they sometimes  keep it for up to 3-4 days . i know the one i've made looked better in consistency as the week went on . he confirmed all the things we know about pre cooking meat etc but he did say that it wasn't necessary to use a paste of ginger/garlic at the final prep stage as there should be enough in the base . Who knows ! I know this post is a bit of a ramble and may not give any secrets that we need but i think the more we all ask the good people of the curry houses, the more info we will get even if it's just snipets here and there .The chef at our local looked genuinely surprised that someone would take so much interest ( if only he knew ) i even offered to work the odd night chopping onions for free just to watch . Sadly he just laughed .
 From what i have learned from this site,and through my own cooking and research i don't think there is a secret . I think it's a combination of many things . for example the browning of the ginger/garlic at the begining which i learned here and certain mixes of spices and the way they are prepared ,possibly even the taste left in their pots and pans from the previous dish.  Thanks to everyone who contributes to this site . if i learn anything of use i will post here .

Keith

[Yousef]

Keith,

Thats certainly is an interesting post.
It could be as simple as adding some Pataks Balti Paste, more salt, lemon juice etc.
I know what does impact on the base sauce and that is the length of time you boil the onions, if its too short you get a picked onion taste, you really have to boil them to release the sweetness.

I also agree with leaving the base sauce for a couple of days it does change consistency and is much better than when fresh.

Like you say, its all about asking when you go in to you takeaway.
S

[pete]

He had a good look at it , consistency etc and then tried it ?.he also said they sometimes keep it for up to 3-4 days ?. I think it's a combination of many things . for example the browning of the ginger/garlic
Keith

It's enough to make a grown man cry, isn't it?
A few weeks back I took a home made curry base to two takeaways.
Check out
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=151.0
What really puzzled me, is that only major critisism of my sauce, was that it needed salt.
There was no "you are missing the special spice" attitude.
I could tell the difference, they evidently could not.
And the difference was the flavour we are chasing.
It's subtle yet deep and is not the first flavour that hits you.
To my mind it is also the best thing about the curry.
It seperates a curry from simply a spicy vegetable stew.
In isolation my curries have been really satisfying, but when placed next to a bought curry they are simply not as good.
They are very close.
The only theories I have left are that
it is a cooking in bulk related problem or
something to do with butter or vegetable ghee.
The trouble is that these cooking experiments really stink out the house.
This is not always best recieved.
I saw the curry gravy made at Bengal Cuisine
Check out
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=118.0
There was nothing special in it.
The main curry gravy pot they used was large.
For my demonstration they used a pot only about 8 inches wide.
Their pot for keeping the evenings curry gravy was maybe 14 inch wide and almost as tall.
It must be a volume thing.
What does anyone else think?

[Curry King]

I don't think there is a secret ingredient or that browning the garlic and ginger makes to much of a difference either.? Others may dissagree thats just my opinion but its come from cooking curry's every week and I know what I like.? From my own experience the simple base recipes are the best, just sling it in, cook it, blend it and then cook it some more, takes 2 hours tops.

I've tried the pataks pastes and I don't like them, everytime Ive tried using them(inc mixing it with yog) you can taste it in the curry, Ive had balti's from takeaways before which tasted of patak paste and to me they don't taste very special either.

The base definitely tastes better once left over night and longer, and reheat it on its own before using it in a curry.? I usually heat it in a saucepan and add a little boiling water to get it back to the right runny consistency.? I don't freeze it anymore and it tends to thicken up in the fridge after a couple of days.?

I think a lot of it is practice to get it right, Ive cooked a lot of curry that has gone straight in the bin but it was worth it.? I can honestly say Ive got some of my curry's as good and better on occasion than a couple of restaurants near me.?

[Yousef]

CK,

Can we all march over to your house for a curry then ho ho? ;D
I'm guna give the Bengal Cuisine ones ago over the week end and report back.
S

[George]

How many portions of base sauce do members have as 'control samples' from restaurants? Does the base sauce definitely have the 'special taste' rather than just the final curries normally purchased? I must see if any of my local places will sell me raw base sauce. I need to go to a take-away with an open plan kitchen so I can see that the sauce comes straight out of the pot with nothing else added.

Admin said that if you use the following base sauce for your curries you wont go far wrong: -
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3.0

Yet this recipe does not have Fenugreek leaves. I would have thought it was essential to get the ?curry house? taste. Isn't it Fenugreek which is the overwhelming smell eminating from Indian restaurants, down the street, throughout the UK? Do you get the same aroma from your house when preparing curries?

Has anyone tried adding a pinch of monosodium glutumate?

I was surprised to hear that some of the restaurant base sauces are relatively thin. Could the base sauce have been wholly or partly sieved to remove all/most of the over-cooked onions and other stuff? On the other hand, I always though this ?sludge? was what provided most of the thickening.
 
My hunch is that large-scale cooking volumes would not make a huge difference.

Regards
George

[Curry King]

Can we all march over to your house for a curry then ho ho? ;D

I'l do the next best thing and post some more pics when I get the chance. With the long weekend coming up it gives more time for experimenting with curry!! 

[grimmo]

Pete - I think you are bang on, with your last post.

Somethings not quite right and yet there doesn't seem to be a logical explanation as to what it missing (or being done incorrectly). Like many on here, when I get it right, the curry produced does taste really nice, but much to my missus annoyance I'll still be dissatisfied with the end result as a restaurant replica.

On scale - this is where my knowledge of cooking falls down...can anyone explain how cooking in large quantities can give different result. I would have thought that if the ingredients are added  in the same proportions and with the same method then the end result would be the same. Can anyone shed any light on this?

There's a quote in the cinnamon club cookbook about the "art"  being in undertsand how the different spices interact and compliment each other. I certainly don't understand how they work other than knowing what they basically smell/taste like. Maybe that's where we are off the mark, in getting the timing right throughout?

then again - even the poorer takeaways Ive had where your curry is knocked out 10 minutes after ordering  have still had that distinct difference to them, so I dunno, I can't imagine it's just a skill issue either.

Talk about paralysis through analysis!!