Topic: Madras curries and other information

[CurryManUKs]

Hey everyone.

I realize that some of you have been trying to perfect BIR style curries for years. I have some questions regarding the curry making process and would like to hear your insight.

1) Does it matter whether you add tomato paste before or after adding the spices?
2) Does seasoned oil make a difference?
3) Does onion paste (Bunjarra) make a difference?
4) Does cooking the tomato puree before adding it to your curry help (the idea is that it removes acidity)?
5) What is the best spice mix you've used?
6) What is the best base gravy you've used?

Of course, if you can't weigh in on some of them, just answer the ones you can.

Many thanks. 

[Peripatetic Phil]

Hallo CMUK, and welcome.  I can't answer many of your questions, so let me try to answer only those that I think I can

[Robbo141]

Welcome curry man
1) Does it matter whether you add tomato paste before or after adding the spices?
I?ve seen examples of both. I prefer frying the spices first but not sure exactly how much difference it makes

2) Does seasoned oil make a difference?
Never tried, although I do have some oil reserved from making bhajis that I may try.

3) Does onion paste (Bunjarra) make a difference?
I made a batch of this, then froze individual ice cube portions and wrapped in cling film.  I?ve tried curries with and without and honestly couldn?t tell the difference.

4) Does cooking the tomato puree before adding it to your curry help (the idea is that it removes acidity)?
I haven?t tried this yet, but am going to, using Syed?s method on his YouTube channel.

5) What is the best spice mix you've used?
Can?t say any have the magic certain something that many claim.  I?ve usually got a couple on the go. Currently Syed?s from Britishian Food and Romain?s from Glebe Kitchen.

6) What is the best base gravy you've used?
Again, none have absolutely stood out.  Tried Al?s Kitchen, Misty Ricardo, Syed but have used one I kind of cobbled together using my Instant Pot electric pressure cooker.  Seems to be OK and doesn?t take hours like some do.  Very repeatable for me.


Robbo

[livo]

1) Does it matter whether you add tomato paste before or after adding the spices?
2) Does seasoned oil make a difference?
3) Does onion paste (Bunjarra) make a difference?
4) Does cooking the tomato puree before adding it to your curry help (the idea is that it removes acidity)?
5) What is the best spice mix you've used?
6) What is the best base gravy you've used?

The answer to the first 3 is yes. How much it matters and what difference it makes is a personal determination.
Q4, it would be my feeling that as long as it is cooked it makes no significant difference.
Q5, assuming you're referring to Mix powder, Mixed powder or Mixed Curry powder, they are different. Syed's (when fresh) used with his recipes was very tasty.  I used CT's or my own for ages and have tried many others. They all work.
Q6, I've tried many from the simplest to the ridiculously laborious with exotic vegetables (Chinese Radish) They all produce curry and some are more suited to a particular style of dish so it depends what you're cooking.  Syed's is good with his recipes, JB's was standard and I always thought highly of CT.'s gravies, (the inclusion of chicken frames in one stovetop version was a winner for me). Misty Ricardo's works as well with his recipes.

[CurryManUKs]

Thank you for the warm welcome. I feel that "special ingredients/tricks" on their own might not make a discernible difference i.e. using seasoned oil instead of regular oil, but with enough alterations, i.e. seasoned oil, aluminium pan, and onion paste in one dish, perhaps they may. Which of these condiments work together, and in what way, remains unknown to me. It's very time-consuming to test properly (making one or two adjustments at a time and holding every other variable equal: the base gravy, spice mix, tomato paste, seasoned oil, onion paste, etc., the quantities of each, etc.) but I'm curious if anyone has taken the time to do it. It seems like there's just far too much to adjust for unless you're willing to put an inordinate amount of time into cranking out dozens of base gravies, spice mixes, etc. (which I shamelessly am, just the prospect seems overwhelming at times). I think they'd have to be made right after each other, too, since it can be difficult to precisely recall the flavor of a dish. I realize people may find this sort of pedantry rather galling, but that's just how I am.

I've also noticed people speak of that "missing 5%" and, honestly, I'd love for someone to elaborate on what is meant by that. If I order a curry from my local takeaway, it doesn't taste like my curry, yes, but that's true of nearly every curry that uses different recipes/ingredients/techniques. Another point is that people who mention that "elusive BIR taste" order from different restaurants in different regions. How are we certain that everyone has the same meaning of "the missing 5%" in mind? Is there a specific description of that taste? If so, I apologize for the oversight.

One more thing -- on the subject of curry/madras powders (I almost exclusively make madras curries), does anyone have a recommendation? I bought the rajah mild madras powder and found it much too pungent. I prefer the smell of the "Old India" brand that's available on Amazon, but not in supermarkets. If anyone has tried rajah, and knows of a brand that has a milder, more pleasant smell, then I'd love to know about it.

[Peripatetic Phil]

There is a member here (unfortunately I forget whom) who consistently did spreadsheet-style analyses; if I can track him (or her) down, I will let you know.  As regards "the missing 5%", I know exactly what is meant by the phrase, but would be completely unable to explain it in a scientific way.  All I can say is that most of us, from time to time, get very close to perfection, yet we know that if we were able to visit a BIR of yore, their curries would still be consistently better than our finest efforts.  These days, I suspect that most of us can get within 98.5% of what most BIRs churn out these days, but to my mind at least (and I think that Secret Santa, amongst others, will agree with me) what we get these days is not a patch on what we got in the late 60's/early 70's.

** Phil.

[Robbo141]

I started a spreadsheet to track my BIR results but stopped after I had my first revelatory 9/10 vindaloo that honestly got very close to what I felt was takeaway taste and then did an exact repeat the following week, only to have the all-too-familiar ?alright but not quite?.
The technique / heat level / timing were the only variances although I thought I?d replicated everything. 
I?ve resigned myself to understanding that I can make a good curry, but not THE curry.
And unlike my fellow Brits back home, I can?t just go out and get takeaway. Boo!

Robbo

[Onions]

what we get these days is not a patch on what we got in the late 60's/early 70's.

The obvious difference would be the salt (and sugar, probably oil) usage.

[Onions]

And unlike my fellow Brits back home, I can't just go out and get takeaway.

Don't worry Robbo

[Peripatetic Phil]

And unlike my fellow Brits back home, I can't just go out and get takeaway.

Don't worry Robbo