Topic: Climate change: Ban gas grid for new homes 'in six years'

[Garp]

It is very difficult, Livo, for me anyway, to treat any of your arguments seriously when part of your evidence against global warming is:

Having had the benefit of living sea-side for over 50 years I can assure you that the sea-level hasn't risen as we are led to believe should have happened by now.

[livo]

Not evidence, observation of the lack of supposedly inevitable consequence.  I don't see why it would be hard to understand Garp. When water level rises it is observable and measurable. As a child my grandparents lived in a waterfront property directly adjacent to sea water affected by tides dependent upon water rising and falling in the adjoining Pacific Ocean. All around the area are wharfs and jetties, boat ramps, bridges, culverts and other permanent landmarks that can easily be used to measure water levels.  There are whole suburban areas that are built on ground so close to high tide sea level that the canals and roadside drains throughout ebb and flow with the tide. This is not a unique location in that respect and it is found everywhere around the world.  In the more than 50 years I've been aware of these water levels, they have not changed at all.  The mud flats are still exposed at low tide and the high water marks are still at the same levels they always were.

As you know water finds its own level so apart from some sea surface level bulging due to atmospheric pressure and flow restrictions, if the sea level were to rise it would rise globally and be measurable everywhere. The point is it just hasn't. There's nothing better than fear to control the masses.

I'm just watching our morning news and once again the Paris targets, the costs involved, the partisan politics involved and figures on emissions and targets roll from the politicians tongues. Reliable power, renewables, big batteries, hydro extension, climate targets etc etc. It is a partisan political football and even the conservatives are split over the validity of the science.  The hard right deny climate change exists but the moderates want to retain power and must appease the centre ground and hopefully drag some of the left swing voters over. Our elections are fought, won and lost on less than 5% of centre swing voters and so surprise surprise, our current Prime Minister has just announced. $2 billion funding for climate change which, as reported, is a hot issue for the voters. 2 months out from the election it would be forgiven to question the timing and reasoning for such a commitment of funding. This is while some parts of the country experience complete blackouts in peak demand. They won't replace old coal power stations with new technology as they are taken off grid, but will gladly sell millions and millions of tonnes of coal to be burnt overseas. Hypocrisy in its purest form. If these political leaders truly believe fossil fuel is killing the planet and Australia can do anything at all, the first and most obvious thing to do is to leave the coal in the ground. But they don't. Why do you think that is? Here's why. https://www.australianmining.com.au/news/coal-pass-iron-ore-top-australian-export/

Australian facts. 1.3% of total emissions. TOP 10 for per capita.  Coal exports for 2018, nearly 400 Mt worth $60 billion. This is projected to keep rising with Asian demand for thermal coal adding another 200 Mt by 2023.  If you add this exported 18 Tonnes of coal per capita in Australia to our actual locally used emissions it effectively doubles our per capita output which makes Australians the worst in the world.
If our politicians honestly expect me to believe that they believe there is a problem, this would be the best place to start. don't you think? We can immediately halve our contribution to global emissions by ceasing exports.  Don't hold your breath.

[Garp]

Not evidence, observation of the lack of supposedly inevitable consequence.  I don't see why it would be hard to understand Garp. When water level rises it is observable and measurable. As a child my grandparents lived in a waterfront property directly adjacent to sea water affected by tides dependent upon water rising and falling in the adjoining Pacific Ocean. All around the area are wharfs and jetties, boat ramps, bridges, culverts and other permanent landmarks that can easily be used to measure water levels.  There are whole suburban areas that are built on ground so close to high tide sea level that the canals and roadside drains throughout ebb and flow with the tide. This is not a unique location in that respect and it is found everywhere around the world.  In the more than 50 years I've been aware of these water levels, they have not changed at all.  The mud flats are still exposed at low tide and the high water marks are still at the same levels they always were.

As you know water finds its own level so apart from some sea surface level bulging due to atmospheric pressure and flow restrictions, if the sea level were to rise it would rise globally and be measurable everywhere. The point is it just hasn't. There's nothing better than fear to control the masses.

There is much science which counters your assertion that sea level rise would be the same everywhere. I suggest you read some of it. If you are seriously denying that the global average sea level is on an upward trend, there really is little hope.

[livo]

Of course I acknowledge it wont immediately or ever be the same everywhere, but water by it's fluid matter property will not hold up forever.
I've read this ]https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/faq.shtml]

and this https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/mslGlobalTrendsTable.html which shows clearly that it isn't globally equal.  There are some places that will sink into the ocean.  All I'm saying is that these trends are not showing the catastrophic scenarios we are led to believe will occur.

"The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report estimates that the global sea level rise was approximately 1.7-1.8 millimeters per year (mm/yr) over the past century (IPCC, 2007), based on tide station measurements around the world, with projected increased trends in sea level in the 20th Century based on global climate models."

This calculates to 170 - 180 mm over the last century. I can't see it with my own eyes where I live is what I'm saying.

There are other factors that may be influencing these anomalies. Global tilt and shifting of the poles for example.

Here is further reading to show why Australia wont stop selling coal. https://www.minerals.org.au/coal-community As the 4th largest exporter of coal globally we have a significant role to play in reducing global CO2 emissions.  Not going to happen with so much MONEY at stake. I'd like to know who is going to tell Glencore to stop digging coal out of the ground and selling it.

https://www.afr.com/business/mining/coal/time-for-glencore-bhp-to-demerge-their-way-out-of-coal-20190224-h1bnmj

[Garp]

I'm out.

[livo]

Rest easy Garp. Me too!

[mickyp]

Well being scientific and all that i know this forum has and is doing its bit for global warming and the fishes, think of all those plastic curry packs from supermarkets that have not been sold, 

[livo]

Rest easy Garp. Me too!

And to put things well and truly back into perspective on a personal level, today confirmation of THR Surgery next week. (ie; Total Hip Replacement).

My apologies for getting all worked up.  Some things are best kept away.  :-X

May not cook anything for a few weeks. 

[Peripatetic Phil]

And to put things well and truly back into perspective on a personal level, today confirmation of THR Surgery next week. (ie; Total Hip Replacement).

"Total Hip Replacement" ?  They give you a new kaftan, new beads, replace all your recordings of Mantovani with music from the 60's and then expect you to start behaving like a 20-year-old again ?  Some hope !  Not unless they also give you a lifetime supply of pot, of course ...

Good luck with the THR, Livo.
** Phil.

[mickyp]

Rest easy Garp. Me too!

And to put things well and truly back into perspective on a personal level, today confirmation of THR Surgery next week. (ie; Total Hip Replacement).

My apologies for getting all worked up.  Some things are best kept away.  :-X

May not cook anything for a few weeks. 

Chef spoons crossed for that one Livo, i wish you a speedy recovery.