Topic: Vindaloo at home

[haldi]

I bought a carton of curry gravy and some spice mix from a takeaway.
I've seen them make vindaloo many times, and wanted to see if mine turned out the same.
I heated 3 desertspoons of veg oil (not curry gravy oil) and cooked 3 desertspoons of tomato puree.
You need to keep this moving round the pan, with the back of the spoon.
Cook for a couple of minutes until it almost burns.
By this time, the oil is quite red
I added a pinch of fenugreek leaves and a teaspoon of spice mix
I stirred briefly, then added half the carton of curry gravy
You must keep stirring
This needs to get really hot and should be bubbling and spitting
If it's not this hot, you won't get the flavour.
With this heat, if you don't stir, it burns very quickly
After a couple of minutes I added some thawed frozen prawns.
I cooked on high,stirring, for five minutes
I added  the rest of the curry gravy, a desertspoon of spice mix, and a teaspoon of chilli powder.
Bubbled away for five minutes, stirring

That was it, and it was a match to what they cook
I had a bought curry with it, and my curry was in no way inferior
The curry gravy supplied was very soup like with no visible oil

[Blondie]

Hi Haldi,

Have you made any of the base sauces on this site and if so which of them (if any) did your bought base sauce come closest to?

Cheers,

Blondie

[haldi]

Hard to believe, but Kris Dhillon is the closest.
It was a very simple, underspiced base
It tastes mainly of boiled onion, garlic, salt and a bit ginger
No chilli heat and not oily
I expect the oil had been ladled off.
I know it's been said before, but I think Kris Dhillons book is close to the truth.
It's just not explained very well
There are also very big differences between curry houses too.
So maybe you've never bought a curry, like you are trying to make.
I have been reading the rice recipes on this site
They produce very good home results, but they aren't like I have seen cooked.
Restaurant chefs use very little spice.

[Cory Ander]

Thanks for a very interesting and informative post, Haldi 

For me, it perhaps raises as many questions as answers!:

• Does this takeaway produce curries with ?the taste? and ?the smell? and ?the appearance? of a good BIR restaurant?
• How would you rate their vindaloo compared to other BIRs?
• How big (roughly) was the carton of curry base?
• How many prawns (roughly) did you add?
• How many people (roughly) does this serve?
• Do you have the recipe for their curry base?
• What does their spice mix comprise of (cumin, coriander, tumeric, curry powder and paprika?)?
• Do you have the recipe for their spice mix?
• When you say that your vindaloo ?was a match? to theirs, do you mean that yours also had ?the taste?, ?the smell? and ?the appearance? of a typical (good) high street vindaloo?  Do you have a photo of it/them by any chance?
• Assuming that both vindaloos had ?the taste?, ?the smell? and ?the appearance?, what do you ascribe them to?  Do you think they are in the curry base, in the cooking technique that you describe, or both?

Regarding rice recipes, I agree (and stated) that the recipe I?ve posted is not the method used by BIRs.  My aim was simply to enable people to get good consistent results without using more complicated cooking (e.g. absorption) and drying techniques. 

For me, the archetypal BIR rice is a typical Special Fried Rice.....slighly sweet, fluffy, slightly oily, fairly spicy, savoury, full of flavour and aroma and very, very tasty.

• How have you seen them cook their rice (by absorption and subsequent microwaving?)?
• What spices have you seen them use for a typical Pilau Rice?
• How would you rate their rice (compared to other good BIRs)?

I have also tried Kris Dhillons curry base (several times) and I?m afraid I don?t rate it at all highly.  The same goes for all the other recipes in her book.  Having said that, I am also of the opinion that a lightly spiced onion/garlic/ginger (plus maybe a few other vegetables) curry base is the way to go.

Sorry for the hundred an one questions Haldi, but your observations are invaluable and greatly appreciated! 

Regards,

[haldi]

Thanks for a very interesting and informative post, Haldi 

For me, it perhaps raises as many questions as answers!:

• Does this takeaway produce curries with ?the taste? and ?the smell? and ?the appearance? of a good BIR restaurant?

#

• How would you rate their vindaloo compared to other BIRs?

Their curries do not have what I call the "taste" but are extremely good.
They have a sweet, fresh spice flavour withe a fantastic aroma
I am always happy with their cooking
I can't believe I am saying this but, I sometimes get fed up with curries with the taste.
It allows no subtlety

• How big (roughly) was the carton of curry base?

The carton was a standard curry container size

• How many prawns (roughly) did you add?

I didn't have many.
It was about half a mug full.
I would have thought it was half, of what a takeaway would use

• How many people (roughly) does this serve?

I shared it with someone, but we had another curry too.
So on it's own it would have served one

• Do you have the recipe for their curry base?

No, sorry, but I reckon Kris Dhillons is very similar

• What does their spice mix comprise of (cumin, coriander, tumeric, curry powder and paprika?)?
• Do you have the recipe for their spice mix?

Yes. that's right
I'm not sure of the ratios, though

• When you say that your vindaloo ?was a match? to theirs, do you mean that yours also had ?the taste?, ?the smell? and ?the appearance? of a typical (good) high street vindaloo?  Do you have a photo of it/them by any chance?

It didn't have the taste (their curries don't)
But it was exact result of how their curries are made.
Look, smell and taste
If I had bought it, I would have been pleased

• Assuming that both vindaloos had ?the taste?, ?the smell? and ?the appearance?, what do you ascribe them to?  Do you think they are in the curry base, in the cooking technique that you describe, or both?

The curry base must be bland
The tomato puree must be fried right
You need to fry on high for the last five minutes of cooking, after adding more spices

• Regarding rice recipes, I agree (and stated) that the recipe I?ve posted is not the method used by BIRs.  My aim was simply to enable people to get good consistent results without using more complicated cooking (e.g. absorption) and drying techniques. 
  
  For me, the archetypal BIR rice is a typical Special Fried Rice.....slighly sweet, fluffy, slightly oily, fairly spicy, savoury, full of flavour and aroma and very, very tasty.
  
  
  • How have you seen them cook their rice (by absorption and subsequent microwaving?)?
  • What spices have you seen them use for a typical Pilau Rice?
  • How would you rate their rice (compared to other good BIRs)?
  
  Two places, I know, precook the rice and microwave it back
  It is never served fresh
  Microwaving (as you have said too), improves the rice texture
  They cook rice in a large pot
  It is filled with water and put on the stove
  While it is coming to the boil they add a small handfull of cummin seeds
  Probably about two teaspoons
  Maybe four green cardamons
  One or maybe one and a half bayleaves
  An inch length of cinnamon
  One chef spoon of salt
  About a mug full of Veg oil
  The oil is the magic ingredient
  Without this, the spices don't cook
  You are almost frying them, in the water
  
  When the water is boiling, chef adds pre soaked and washed rice
  He never leaves the pot now
  As it boils, he continually tests the rice for being cooked
  It needs to be still a little hard (as you said)
  After about six/seven minutes the rice is drained in a colander
  It is left draining for about a quarter of an hour
  Then it is transferred to another pot
  Coloured  powder is mixed with milk and dotted onto the rice
  The whole thing goes into the oven with a lid on
  The oven is set pretty low
  Leave about an hour
  Check every now and then and give carefully stirs
  When the rice is finished, pick out any rice that is too brightly coloured
  I have a feeling, that the whole spices, may be used more than once
  
  
  I like plain boiled basmatti rice too
  Their pilau rice just adds a bit more to that flavour
  Very little spicing
  But I do appreciate that there are big differences between takeaways/restaurants
  One place,I know, puts cloves in their rice
  
  
  
  • I have also tried Kris Dhillons curry base (several times) and I?m afraid I don?t rate it at all highly.  The same goes for all the other recipes in her book.  Having said that, I am also of the opinion that a lightly spiced onion/garlic/ginger (plus maybe a few other vegetables) curry base is the way to go.
    
    Sorry for the hundred an one questions Haldi, but your observations are invaluable and greatly appreciated! 
    
    Regards,)
  
  

[/list]

[Cory Ander]

Hi Haldi,

Thanks for clarifying those 101 questions Haldi!  

I have to say, the method you described for making Pilau Rice is very similar to the one that I usually use.....cos I'm normally in a hurry (which BIRs generally are of course!) and can't be bothered with anything more elaborate (like frying the spices first and/or using the absorption method)

....except that I often add a few drops of food colour (i.e. yellow) during boiling......and I either serve the rice straight after draining (or maybe reheat it in the microwave, on high, for a few minutes), or I colour it further (e.g. add a few drops of red food colour), cool it (rather than warming it in an oven......though I accept that this is standard practice in BIRs) and freeze it.

Dissolving the food colour in milk is interesting....I've never done that, though I have added some milk during boiling.....too much makes it taste more like rice pudding!....perhaps the method you describe is just enough to add a little flavour to the rice?

Hmmm...sorry Haldi!  It seems that I've gone somewhat off track!  Talking about rice!  This thread is about cooking a BIR Vindaloo!........oops! 

[Cory Ander]

Hi Haldi,

I've just tried making this (just the sauce - no meat) using:

• my own, lightly spiced, Curry Base (predominantly onion, garlic and ginger - plus some other veggies)
• Bruce Edward's Spice Mix (i.e. coriander, cumin, tumeric, curry powder and paprika)

The result was pretty good!  This is what I found:

• the tomato puree gave the oil and sauce a nice red colour (as you said)
• the sauce took on quite a nice sweetness
• the predominant flavour and aroma was that of the underlying "onionyness"of the Curry Base (quite common, in BIR vindaloos, I've found)

All in all, I think it produced a very passable (and simple!) vindaloo!

Cheers! 

[haldi]

Thanks Cory
                    I made it again last night, with a home made base.
I used the bought "spice mix"
The curry was still good, but not as good as the one made last week.
It made me realise how important getting the base right is
When I have been talking to chefs, this is something always emphasised.
One of the "secrets"
Sometimes they don't even get it right
Back to the drawing board!!

[Cory Ander]

....It made me realise how important getting the base right is

I agree Haldi.  What you've effectively got, here, is a Curry Base that has simply been made tomatoey (i.e. tomato puree), slightly spicey (i.e. spice mix) and hotter (i.e. chilli powder)......So the outome is inevitably bound to be very dependent upon the quality of the curry base itself! 

[Yousef]

Haldi,

This is an interesting report and a great read.  Seeing as you have managed to get the curry sauce on its own from the takeaway, why not ask them direct for the recipe.

Stew