Topic: Carmelized/FRY Onion in Oil - Vs. Just BOIL Onion

[greencoburn]

Hello!

When you guys make bases do you:

Carmelize/FRY Onion slowly in Oil, then add water and boil

OR

Just put onion in water (and possible oil) and Boil with NO PRIOR CARMELIZATION TO ONION


I figure the best thing to do is to carmelize half the onion in oil, then add water to cover and the rest of the onion! Then you get the best of both worlds.

Anyone have anythoughts on this?

 

[ELW]

Hi greencoburn, just boil the onions. I've tried it once & found it a complete waste of time. I'll give it a couple of hours initial boil for around 3kg chopped onion on a typical home hob.
Some people fry their spices/garlic/ginger/tomatoes(puree) in oil before adding to the gravy which again I don't bother with.
Im going to try a around 2 kg version of jb's base today because I'm familiar with his posts over the years, but normally I make base gravies up as I go along. I don't measure anything anymore when doing this
Regards
ELW

[chewytikka]

Just put onion in water (and oil) and Boil with NO PRIOR CARMELIZATION TO ONION

Plus add Salt and Tumeric for the correct first stage BIR method.

[JerryM]

I tried frying onion 1 time only too.

Quite a surprise as for none curry I see caramelising as key to taste in any onion based recipe.

I guess in short I rely on bunjarra at dish frying to get an extra lift. 

I've recently not been adding water at all (only oil). I don't really as yet know if this beats the standard method (simmer only) or not. Gut feeling is not

I feel getting the rest of the base right and subsequent steps have bigger impact.

I feel might be wrongly confusing 2 completely different methods or reactions. The caramelisation for none curry is at high heat it tastes nothing like the simmered onion in oil only base.

Given the impact of the garlic tarka in base then maybe more mileage could be gained from onion. 

Interesting - can't decide and feel a side by side would be needed. It's a long way down the todo list though. 

[greencoburn]

Thanks.

I'm surprised, because I always considered the carmelized onions as vital to THE curry taste.
Do people make a seperate paste (bunjarra?) of carmelized brown onions and add this?
I can see the benifit of adding the desired amount of carmelized onion paste+base as opposed to a base that has the carmelized onion already in it.

[Naga]

Just made Garlic Chicken Tikka Jaipuri - my garlic-laden variation of Panpot's Ashoka Jaipuri - with 2 tbsps of the Ashoka bunjarra. An excellent dish made all the better for the inclusion of the caramelised onion sauce.

I use it in other dishes too, like a Dopiaza, to enrichen the flavour. Highly recommended!

[George]

I'm surprised, because I always considered the carmelized onions as vital to THE curry taste.

I agree. I've seen quite a few TV progs, like series featuring Madhur Jaffrey, where everyone seems to say almost the same thing  - that you need to brown the onions to make a good curry.

My guess is that the onions get caramelized even when cooked with lots of water. I don't think many people use water in a base sauce without a significant quantity of oil. So there may be some 'underwater frying' going on, or something like that.

[Peripatetic Phil]

It was also the first supplementary question that Camellia Panjabi asked me after her initial question of "How do you make a curry" ?  Once I had explained that I used the BIR technique of making a base in advance, with onions, ginger, garlic and water, she immediately followed up with "and do you fry the onions first, until they are brown ?".  I begin to think I should !

** Phil.

[ELW]

Thanks.

I'm surprised, because I always considered the carmelized onions as vital to THE curry taste.
Do people make a seperate paste (bunjarra?) of carmelized brown onions and add this?
I can see the benifit of adding the desired amount of carmelized onion paste+base as opposed to a base that has the carmelized onion already in it.

The gravy is just a boiled onion puree Greencoburn. Think the onion paste from Ashoka was misheard as bunjarra.
Have heard of a couple of dishes with banjara in the name. Its just another way of adding slower cooked spice/onion/ extra flavour to the dishes
in place of quick fried powders. I think the emphasis on caramelisation when making this paste was probably more by forum members more than the chef/cook who made it or described it.
 Whenever I make it I just brown the onions without burning, don't hang about the pan watching it too closely.
It only adds something to the dish if your gravy has been made correctly, otherwise its overpowered by it.

[JerryM]

i think the 2 types need to be separated out.

there's what i call a hot dog onion - what i use for general cooking - this is hot fried with minimal water and eventually min 30 mins turns dark. i've tried this in base 1 time only and saw no difference.

there is also in the mix - the traditional curry which is not BIR and for sure hot dark caramelized onion is part of the flavour.

the BIR base onion never really losses its water during the cook and does not fry. i was surprised when i cooked base without water ie oil only. the end result from what i can detect is no difference (in terms of the onion) - it looks and tastes the same. i have been getting much sweater base "onion" but as yet not sure if its just down to the longer simmer.

in short i believe frying onion for BIR base is waste of time. using bunjarra is completely different and for me the BIR way.

the other issue to keep in mind is that what is added to base is added to every dish and flexibility at dish frying is needed to ensure every dish dont tast same.

like all in BIR the only way is to try it for yourself and see if it makes a difference.

as said previously this is a tricky subject - the difference i see at dish fry on high heat i feel is partly down to caramelisation and scraping this back into the curry. given this you would think caramelising at the base stage would be of help. its not a step change in practice though. i guess down to the fact that other ingredients are probably more important - the balance and depth of spice.

it remains unresolved for me.