Topic: goncalo's BIR food diary

[spiceyokooko]

Sad to hear you've had to endure yet another disappointing meal in a restaurant but pleased that you're at least getting out and comparing commercial fare to your own home cooked and finding it compares favourably.

As home cooks of this style food I think we become hyper-critical of our own efforts in part because we don't have a wide variety of people tasting them and giving us feedback on them, so as cooks we tend to judge them ourselves, often harshly.

Whenever members here have cooked for other people, from what I've read, the feedback they receive seems to be pretty favourable, which tends to support the view that what we produce at home will, more often than not, match or better that produced by BIR restaurants.

I'm finding that myself. I used to use a pretty standard Chicken Madras as my benchmark dish to judge restaurants on and then Chicken Bhuna, but I find the standard offerings of these dishes to be so poor, I've moved to a Chicken Dhansak, which, in my opinion is a much easier dish to get right. Yet the last restaurant I visited about 3-4 weeks ago couldn't even get that right. It was bland, almost like a standard chicken curry with a few dollops of lentils in it, very disappointing.

Dhansak for me has quite complex underlying flavours, it's hot, sweet and sour with an overlay of smokiness and an almost unctuous unami savoury-ness to it. The one I cooked last night had all those characteristics and beat the restaurant one hands down and every which way.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, everything anyone needs to produce very good BIR style dishes that will compare very well with your average BIR restaurant are right here on this forum if you're prepared to look for them, adopt the methods and perfect them and use the right ingredients.

There are no secret ingredients and there are no secret methods. Yet there will always be someone, somewhere who thinks they have the secret and will try and profit from it. You know the old saying -

A fool and his money soon part.

I'm glad you're moving on in your BIR journey and getting the results equal to the efforts you're clearly putting in.

[goncalo]

Thanks spicyokoko! I think you hit the nail on the head. I am extremely critical about my food. The few guests I've cooked food for so far, have all provided positive feedback, but being a little paranoid, one has to wonder whether they are just being sympathetic or whether they would be the kind who would eat anything and always find whatever is given to them good, within reason. I know my girlfriend loves my food, but I also know she's not very critical of whatever she eats (however, she disliked the butter chicken yesterday) and I think this may very well be down to the irish people in general. My girlfriend and her family would eat chipper quite regularly, given the choice of indian or chinese, they'd be more keen on latter, hence, I have to rely highly on my recollections of what proper indian food is and again, it is entirely down to my experiences in a single city in UK.

When I tried CBM's base for the first time, I had previously made the C2G base (although I've never squeezed the vinegary aroma out of it during its cooking as required, so the result may not be the expected or what most get) and I thought that both bases were identical in terms of flavour and smell. After yesterday's disappointment, I kept wondering if this common flavour between bases (CBM, C2G) would be the standard Bengali base-flavour in other parts of UK, because, as far as I can remember and it's been 6 months since my last UK curry (admittedly, memory may be jaded by now), I've never had any curry resembling this flavour in whole or in part -- and It's not like its bad, but it just isn't what I'm after. The restaurants in Cambridge all had a savoury edge to them. Their base had nothing in common with this one or any on this forum. It feels minimalistic in comparison.

If I decide to fly into Manchester as has been discussed, I will be taking a day to visit
 Manchester, followed by bradford and then head towards Cambridge. This should give me wider exposure to 2 other important regions when it comes to BIR.

[goncalo]

Found some left-over salmon and thought this was the perfect excuse to try and make a baseless bombay aloo, because the more I think about them, the more I believe that is how I used to get my bombay aloo from my favorite BA supplier back in the day, although I might be confused as well. If there was any base in the BA, then sure enough it was downwards of 1/2 of ladle. I think I got it right in many levels this time, including taste, texture, looks and a few things I think can be improved:

1. Use of par-boiled potatoes as a starting point
2. Panch phoron has a characteristic flavour and a BIR smell, but it seems it makes the flavour bitter too. I should probably try with mustard seeds only
3. fresh tomato and coriander were not available and I always find coriander to be one of the essences of the smell and flavour of bombay aloo.

[spiceyokooko]

1. Use of par-boiled potatoes as a starting point

I would say that's a pretty good place to start.

I've been twiddling with a traditional Aloo Methi recipe recently, turning it into BIR style. You might like to try a similar technique for your bombay potatoes.

Par boil the potatoes in boiling water with a pinch or so of turmeric and salt. I usually use maris piper potatoes as I find they have the right texture for this and go tender without falling apart. To boil these to done, I'd usually give them 10 mins in boiling water, for a par boil, I usually do them to about 6/7 minutes. The timings are from when the water is boiling, I boil the water, add the potatoes and start timing once they start boiling again. Strain these.

I then start as I would do normally when cooking BIR, heat the oil, heaped tsp of g/g, spices (1/2 tsp mix, 1/2 tsp chilli, 1/4 tsp salt) fry the spices, in go the potatoes and mix with the spices and paste, 1 chef spoon of base or reduced cooking liquid from boiled potatoes or a combination of both and reduce the liquid in the pan to half or until it just thickens and clings to the potatoes.

The key here are timings. Par boiling the potatoes initially to about 1/3rd to 3/4 done and finishing them off whilst reducing the liquid in the pan to a thickish sauce without them disintegrating and falling apart.

You can try popping mustard seeds first, you can try adding some chopped green chilli's towards the end of frying the g/g paste or towards the end of cooking, you can try adding some methi leaves towards the end of spice frying or adding panch phoran to the spice mix until you arrive at works for you.

Experiment, taste, experiment, taste etc. until you arrive at what you feel is the right taste and texture.

And enjoy eating the experiments

[goncalo]

So I've finally found a takeaway in Dublin that has the BIR taste and smell and it's quite similar to the ones I was used to in UK, it is the Shakira in Clondalkin, Dublin 22. I ordered a tikka jalfrezi, pilau, peshwari naan and a biryani tikka and asked if I could get a naan instead of the veg curry. The only disappointing thing was the naans that felt a bit too thin. I called back just to ask if the chef was bengali and to my surprise, I was told he is from Punjab. As I placed the order on just-eat yesterday, next time I am going to drive to try and establish a relationship and possibly ask to see how things are being done behind the scenes. Watch this space.

[goncalo]

Par boil the potatoes in boiling water with a pinch or so of turmeric and salt. I usually use maris piper potatoes as I find they have the right texture for this and go tender without falling apart. To boil these to done, I'd usually give them 10 mins in boiling water, for a par boil, I usually do them to about 6/7 minutes. The timings are from when the water is boiling, I boil the water, add the potatoes and start timing once they start boiling again. Strain these.

That is an excellent tip. I suppose this will vary depending on the number/size of potatoes, size of pot and power of hob jets though? I will definitely play around with those settings though

One more question, when it starts boiling and you start your counter for 6/7 minutes, do you lower the heat from the moment they start boiling? Also, regarding maris pipers, I can't easily source them here in most super markets. I suppose potatoes is something we have in different varieties around here (I think the irish are known for their potatoes) but either they exist and aren't tagged as such, or there is no tag at all, which is more often than not the case.


I never had the methi aloo, but I'm sort of curious. The aroma from methi used to make me feel pretty sick, but I think it's grown on me. Same for cumin, so I'll try it some time -- maybe the methi gosht that has been discussed recently

[goncalo]

It's been a while since I last updated this "log". My last base was SnS's Zaffron base recipe and for me its a definite winner. The end result does not feel too dissimilar to the taz base, although it is somewhat richer. The thicker texture is likely because of the 210g of potato. I wonder how would a base like this work, if, say, we'd reduce the 500ml of oil to 100 or 200. I should probably add this to my list of experiments to accomplish.

My best jalfrezi to date and closest to the BIR flavor so far. Things I've done differently: I par-fried the peppers and onions, used salt and more than a tsp of dried methi leaves, which accentuated the herbal flavour.


I also ventured into the world of less BIR cuisine, and tried to make keema aloo, however I didn't get anywhere near my goal -- it was tasty and to a certain extent, it was almost like I shredded a sheek kebab and threw in some bombay aloo - but the version I had at a pakistani restaurant had a gravy/stock that was full flavored and mine became a bit too dried and the potatoes had more of a bite to them that I was expecting. Here's a picture anyway:



Lately I've been using the Viceroy Brasserie recipe for pre-cooking chicken and I find it's also a big winner. I've also been cooking biryani rice sans the vegetable curry. I noticed that every time I cook some, the first floor of my house is replenished with that lovely takeaway/bir smell that we all love. One of the reasons I attribute this too is because I do let the spices cook slightly longer than when I am making a curry. This had me thinking and gave me some variables to play with next time I'm cooking a curry.

[spiceyokooko]

That is an excellent tip. I suppose this will vary depending on the number/size of potatoes, size of pot and power of hob jets though? I will definitely play around with those settings though

Sorry Goncalo, I hadn't seen your follow up questions.

Yes, everything will always depend on your own settings.

Timings will vary depending primarily on the size and type of potatoes you will use, burner size, pot size and so on, even if you use salt in the water or not! Naturally smaller potato pieces will cook faster to 'doneness' that larger ones will. Just experiment a little till you find the right settings for you.

One more question, when it starts boiling and you start your counter for 6/7 minutes, do you lower the heat from the moment they start boiling?

Yes.

I bring water to the boil (sometimes if I'm in a hurry I boil water in a kettle first and use that, but it's better to boil from cold in the pan in my opinion) once it's boiling I add the chopped, rinsed (always worth rinsing chopped potatoes in cold water to get rid of possible starch) and strained potatoes to the water. The water will then go off the boil as the cold potatoes are added. I then add a pinch of salt and turmeric and then bring them back to the boil. As soon as they start boiling I drop to a simmer, put the lid on and start timing. As I mentioned, on my hob, 10 mins is usually done, so I simmer for about 6-7 mins.

Also, regarding maris pipers, I can't easily source them here in most super markets. I suppose potatoes is something we have in different varieties around here (I think the irish are known for their potatoes) but either they exist and aren't tagged as such, or there is no tag at all, which is more often than not the case.

Ahh okay. Well Ireland is the place for potatoes!

You want a floury type rather than waxy, but not so floury they disintegrate. I find Maris Pipers and King Edwards to be pretty good all round potatoes.

Just experiment till you find a variety you like really.

I never had the methi aloo, but I'm sort of curious. The aroma from methi used to make me feel pretty sick, but I think it's grown on me. Same for cumin, so I'll try it some time -- maybe the methi gosht that has been discussed recently

I love Aloo Methi, it's by far my favourite vegetable dish and I always ask for it in any Indian Restaurant I go to even if they don't have it on the menu - more often than not they just nod and up it comes. It's just another of those little tests, if they've never heard of it or don't know how to cook it, it's not a good sign!

In my opinion Methi/Fenugreek is probably the most important ingredient to capturing that BIR smell and taste. Just smell some ground fenugreek and compare that smell to the smell you get from inside an Indian Takeaway bag, both the smells are very close together.

Understanding Fenugreek in all its forms, seeds, ground, dried/fresh leaves is really key to achieving BIR flavour in my opinion.

[chonk]

Hi goncalo!

Regarding the Panch phoron, you could also try to mix your own, and reduce the amount of kalonji and methi seeds. Use equal parts, but just the half of that when it comes to these two ingredients. Personally, I love methi seeds (and the dried leaves, too), but too much of it can be slightly bitter for some people.

Pics look good (:

[Secret Santa]

Just smell some ground fenugreek and compare that smell to the smell you get from inside an Indian Takeaway bag, both the smells are very close together.

I believe Phil has said much the same thing and I have to disagree. It's definitely a component of the 'smell' but it's not the whole thing - not even close for me. The 'real' BIR smell, as evidenced from a takeaway bag, is far more nuanced (and better).