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Author Topic: Pat Chapman Base Gravy  ( 45,833 )

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Offline Garp

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 08:56 PM »
Well I didn't make the quote

I think that, by definition, any book setting out to describe the preparation of Balti dishes must be a book concerning BIR techniques.  The Balti styloe originated in the BIR trade (in the West Midlands, to be precise).

It would be interesting and informative to hear your reply to Pat's opinion that that is not the case. I would suggest that your opinion is, at least, less believable than Pat's on this matter since you seem to believe what you say above.
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Offline Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 09:49 PM »
Quote from: Garp on July 01, 2013, 08:56 PM
It would be interesting and informative to hear your reply to Pat's opinion that that is not the case. I would suggest that your opinion is, at least, less believable than Pat's on this matter since you seem to believe what you say above.

I am perfectly happy to accept that my opinion is less believable than Pat's; however, it is not at all clear to me why that is automatically entailed by what I wrote above.  The real question is whether PC's Balti Curry Cookbook is (by definition) about BIR cuisine, and I argue that it is on the following two bases :

1) The sub-title is "The exciting new curry technique".  Note the word "new".  Not "The exciting curry technique practiced for centuries in the until-now-unheard-of region called Baltistan".  "New".  "New" because Balti curries appear in Britain in 1977, and were starting to become famous by 1982.  Pat's book is dated 1993.

2) In his FAQ, Pat writes :

QuoteQ13. Does Balti Exist

A lot of people, Indians in particular, wish you to believe it does not. It is not helped by the fact that in Hindi, the word Balti means a cast iron slop pot or bucket. More significantly, it originated in Pakistan, no friend of India. It was not helped in Britain either, because it came to light in Birmingham, not in mighty London, where the national press is based.

These Are Facts

In the high mountains of north Pakistan, is the ancient state of Baltistan, (latitude 36?E, longitude 74?N). It is part of Pakistan
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Offline Garp

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 08:39 AM »
Fair enough  :)
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Offline commis

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 05:10 PM »
Hi

I fancy a proper balti now.

Regards
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Offline acrabat

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2013, 10:44 PM »
I recently gave this book to a charity shop in Lanarkshire along with a load of other curry books. I wonder if you bought my old copy. Anyway don't bother with Pat's base sauce recipe if you are looking for the BIR taste, he was clearly making most of it up as he went along to sell books. I tried it twenty years ago and was disappointed. Pick any of the highly rated bases from this site and you will be much happier. I have tried most from here and although the recipes look different they all produce a very similar tasting base.
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Offline StoneCut

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2013, 11:24 AM »
I don't think any of the bases on this site qualify as a "Balti" base, though, right? What if you want something else?
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Offline goncalo

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2013, 11:55 AM »
Speaking of books, sorry to help derailing the thread a little bit more.

I just saw this bargain. 10eur for 5 curry books (second hand, but looking ok).
http://www.adverts.ie/food-and-drink/5-great-curry-cookery-books/2867921
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Offline Garp

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2013, 07:15 PM »
Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on July 01, 2013, 09:49 PM
Quote from: Garp on July 01, 2013, 08:56 PM
It would be interesting and informative to hear your reply to Pat's opinion that that is not the case. I would suggest that your opinion is, at least, less believable than Pat's on this matter since you seem to believe what you say above.

I am perfectly happy to accept that my opinion is less believable than Pat's; however, it is not at all clear to me why that is automatically entailed by what I wrote above.  The real question is whether PC's Balti Curry Cookbook is (by definition) about BIR cuisine, and I argue that it is on the following two bases :

1) The sub-title is "The exciting new curry technique".  Note the word "new".  Not "The exciting curry technique practiced for centuries in the until-now-unheard-of region called Baltistan".  "New".  "New" because Balti curries appear in Britain in 1977, and were starting to become famous by 1982.  Pat's book is dated 1993.

2) In his FAQ, Pat writes :

QuoteQ13. Does Balti Exist

A lot of people, Indians in particular, wish you to believe it does not. It is not helped by the fact that in Hindi, the word Balti means a cast iron slop pot or bucket. More significantly, it originated in Pakistan, no friend of India. It was not helped in Britain either, because it came to light in Birmingham, not in mighty London, where the national press is based.

These Are Facts

In the high mountains of north Pakistan, is the ancient state of Baltistan, (latitude 36?E, longitude 74?N). It is part of Pakistan
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Offline Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2013, 07:32 PM »
Quote from: Garp on July 05, 2013, 07:15 PM
So, dear Phil, would you care to reconsider your previous comments, and indeed, confirm where you are in the West Midlands.

With pleasure, my dear Garp :  formerly Smethwick (Marshall Street, right next door to the church), now happily retired to the depths of deepest Kent.  As to the new facts, I am deeply indebted to you.  Thank you for drawing them to my attention.

** Phil (eschewing prolixity, for once).
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Offline Garp

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Re: Pat Chapman Base Gravy
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2013, 07:53 PM »
No probs mate - in this tennis season should we call it 15 all?  :)
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