Cheers guys i will keep you informed thats for sure, you know someones got to let the cat out of the bag one day if you know what i mean, but the contrast of the whole thing hopefully may cast some light on what we are looking for i dont know! its challenging but when you got a kitchen with a few chefs in it wouldnt take long to make the gravy. curryhell look forward to the updates and yes great shame about the spam,