This may cause a bit of controversy and i know some have been behind the scenes of a bir kitchen, although there are lots of youtube clips from bir's, theres nothing like publicity, publicity can make you money, get you noticed, although ive been into 3 or 4 bir kitchens and watched them cook my takeaway they seemed very reluctant to really tell me anything when i asked a question or two, so do we really know what goes on behind closed doors, maybe the whole cooking method is different, a way of leading us down the wrong avenue to stop us getting it right! or maybe someone as witnessed all the goodies going in the pot, if that was the true case then we would have captured that true authentic taste long ago that everyone is longing for, after reading a few past threads its seems a lot of budding bir chefs on here have gone to the ends of the earth to get it but still no luck in doing so, just a thought!!! maybe you can see my point!

I think you'll find other forum members with extensive experience of BIR kitchens, including doing the cooking that will disagree with you Steve. What goes on behind those doors is no longer the big secret.

I find myself inclined to agree with SL on this one.  Once upon a time the goings on behind closed doors were a closely guarded secret.  Maybe they needed to be as the dinner may not have been impressed with what he saw.  What's becoming increasingly clear is that practices have changed over time and are still changing which IMO will have had and will continue to have an impact on the "taste".  But we "chefs" are also to blame.  We don't always pay attention to what's right under our noses sometimes and overlook the obvious.  How many still believe there's a secret ingredient that isn't being shared I wonder?  The search for the grail goes on though ;D.  My madras with the new base tonight.  I just could not resist :

Have to agree with the latter part of your thread, what you say is most correct, but yes i do think that that something is missing, it could be a particular veg or spice, or as you say right under our noses, as we all know its that little thing that eludes the taste just as if we had sunday lunch without gravy. you know sunday lunch just wouldnt be the same hope the madras goes down ok

i can relate to stevejet66's gist.

i've never been in BIR so to speak "back stage". there is for sure thanks to www a great deal more known as SL states.

the open kitchen has probably been another eyeopener and many members have posted their experiences. each giving that little bit more of a clue as to what goes on. i must admit to spending quite a lot of time watching from the counter and there is a great deal to pick up particularly armed with the knowledge from CRO.

BIR's are commercial and no one would expect anything other than clamming up when questions become too searching.

i'm still convinced that all is not in the public domain and probably never will. having said that there's enough to produce very good curry but not necessarily best.

for me i'd like to get my oil better, gradually refine recipes and get consistency on the zaal garlic.

i'm not searching for anything that's not already posted and more than well pleased on my CRO journey.

i'm not searching for anything that's not already posted and more than well pleased on my CRO journey.

Jerrym your right, its a long winded journey LOL but very true, my next quest is to realate my bases on a stew, it was the bir chefs who altered the taste of indian cooking to suit the western palet, and our favourite, well mine is stew, base gravy is an asian cassarole and mixed with westen cooking mainly british,  i can say without doubt that the base gravy is the complete thing, i have actually tried it, as i say again we dont cook a stew then throw it in another pan and throw everything we can at it to make it taste better do we! when it cooked its cooked. i just been out for more goodies for tommorow, so its gonna be a pan banging section, im free, off work and doing nothing but cook! 

Quote from: stevejet66 on November 07, 2012, 06:58 PM
i can say without doubt that the base gravy is the complete thing, i have actually tried it, as i say again we dont cook a stew then throw it in another pan and throw everything we can at it to make it taste better do we!

Except that that contradicts every single person's direct experience of what happens in a BIR kitchen. There is no question that a base is made and that that forms the 'base' for every dish by being thrown together with loads of other ingredients.

Quote from: Secret Santa on November 07, 2012, 08:13 PM

Quote from: stevejet66 on November 07, 2012, 06:58 PM
i can say without doubt that the base gravy is the complete thing, i have actually tried it, as i say again we dont cook a stew then throw it in another pan and throw everything we can at it to make it taste better do we!

Except that that contradicts every single person's direct experience of what happens in a BIR kitchen. There is no question that a base is made and that that forms the 'base' for every dish by being thrown together with loads of other ingredients.

Been reading Stevejet's recent posts regarding base gravies etc,very interesting reading indeed.I have to say though that the complete base gravy/curry sauce he describes is a  new technique to me(I know Haldi has tasted something similar though).I spent a whole evening standing next to a chef in one of my local takeaways on a lesson,there were no suprises or anything 'hidden' he just churned out dish after dish using the familiar thin gravy and then added his other ingredients.I've still got a portion of gravy from my local favourite restaurant and again it is just a thin,mildly spiced gravy,nowhere near a complete curry sauce,and they make some fantastic curries.If anything it is actually is pretty much identical to the Little India base gravy that CBM supplied.

Quote from: stevejet66 on November 07, 2012, 06:58 PM
my next quest is to relate my bases on a stew

stevejet66,

would appreciate more explanation on this as i can't see where improvement could be gained or what the end point would be.

i can sort of relate to the making of base as you would a stew - ie slow cooking. at the end point the base needs to be thin as this water is important in the cooking/frying stage. the switching to another pan ie frying is again an essential step in the overall process.

i guess it comes down to the persons objective - i want to cook 1 off dish at a time down to the quality and diversity. the thought of cooking 6 off curries say is a positive for me not a chore.

as an example i quite like BIR buffets and go a lot. the food though is well short of what's produced on a single portion basis in the same BIR.

the staff curry is another example - really nice 1 off pot dish. perfect for midweek. i'd never make on a weekend though. is this difference along the lines of what you're getting at.